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Post by bartiks on Jan 24, 2020 20:55:57 GMT -5
I'm confused here are we talking religion, politics or just general conversation. I don't know if I'm coming or going right now. Maybe what we are getting into here is the little know area of... wait for it.... ROLITICS. That's it, the government has finally found a way to infiltrate the last sanctuary we have. Although something comes to mind, I thought there was a clause of "separation of church and state".
Or maybe that was just a general guideline for the fed to follow to finally accomplish what they had set out to do long ago. Either way, I'm still confused.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 21:13:46 GMT -5
I'm confused here are we talking religion, politics or just general conversation. I don't know if I'm coming or going right now. Maybe what we are getting into here is the little know area of... wait for it.... ROLITICS. That's it, the government has finally found a way to infiltrate the last sanctuary we have. Although something comes to mind, I thought there was a clause of "separation of church and state". Or maybe that was just a general guideline for the fed to follow to finally accomplish what they had set out to do long ago. Either way, I'm still confused. The so called "separation of church and state" is a myth. It's nowhere in any founding document. The First Amendment only says that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. In other words, you're free to worship as you please, or, not worship at all. But nothing in any founding document grants you any right to not be offended, or prohibits religious expressions on public or government properties.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 24, 2020 21:40:14 GMT -5
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Post by whitetaildave24 on Jan 24, 2020 21:41:39 GMT -5
Pretty sure just the nature of today’s society allows anyone to be offended by anything and get their way if they whine about it enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2020 22:46:28 GMT -5
Pretty sure just the nature of today’s society allows anyone to be offended by anything and get their way if they whine about it enough. No, you're right on, that's the culture. I was just saying there's no constitutional right to never be offended.
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Post by Russ Koon on Jan 25, 2020 13:18:11 GMT -5
I like to consult Thomas Jefferson on matters of government.
He wrote, that the legitimate powers of government should affect only matters that do injury to others. "It does me no harm if my neighbor says there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
Then rub comes in when it DOES pick my pocket.
I suspect that every letter inscribed on every coin or note of our currency costs something more than the empty space that would be there if it weren't included, and that cost is paid by money extracted from me by the threat of force by our government, so the inclusion of those words on our currency DOES actually pick my pocket.
So does the provision of local services such as fire protection, police protection, sidewalks and such that the local property taxpayers provide "for free" to religious establishments. Other property owners share in the cost of anything that is given away by the government, and the same government decides whether the religious establishment that gets the "free stuff" is an actual authentic one or someone who claims the status in order to get the tax break, so it would seem that any religious establishment that receives such favorable treatment is indeed receiving government aid that would be in conflict with the first amendment.
There are other examples, but those should be enough to illustrate the point that the constitutional restriction has been ignored pretty much from the start by those with the majority view on the first amendment, that it is "meant for the other guys, not us". Sounds like a constitutional right to be offended to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 13:52:32 GMT -5
I like to consult Thomas Jefferson on matters of government. He wrote, that the legitimate powers of government should affect only matters that do injury to others. "It does me no harm if my neighbor says there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." Then rub comes in when it DOES pick my pocket. I suspect that every letter inscribed on every coin or note of our currency costs something more than the empty space that would be there if it weren't included, and that cost is paid by money extracted from me by the threat of force by our government, so the inclusion of those words on our currency DOES actually pick my pocket. So does the provision of local services such as fire protection, police protection, sidewalks and such that the local property taxpayers provide "for free" to religious establishments. Other property owners share in the cost of anything that is given away by the government, and the same government decides whether the religious establishment that gets the "free stuff" is an actual authentic one or someone who claims the status in order to get the tax break, so it would seem that any religious establishment that receives such favorable treatment is indeed receiving government aid that would be in conflict with the first amendment. There are other examples, but those should be enough to illustrate the point that the constitutional restriction has been ignored pretty much from the start by those with the majority view on the first amendment, that it is "meant for the other guys, not us". Sounds like a constitutional right to be offended to me. Like everything else, government is instituted originally by God, so, as much as I admire Jefferson and the other Founders, and I quote them often, my default is to God, not man. As far as my church not paying taxes, that money has already been taxed once when I earned it. Personally, I'm not a proponent of government taxing the same money multiple times, but, it happens all the time. Moreover, property taxes are immoral, because none of us should have to pay rent to government for the "privilege" of living in, or owning and us being OUR property. But again, what I said was, there's no constitutional right to "not" be offened, nevertheless, present the statement however you wish, there's no constitutional right to be offended, or not be offended. I believe what you mean to say is that it's a moral argument because your sensibilities are offended. I, and a lot of other Americans disagree. I'm curious though as to how you feel the First Amendment is being violated. There simply is no "separation of church and state" , that's a liberal myth. Undoubtedly you already know that phrase doesn't exist in a single founding document, but was only used by Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists reassuring them that the new government would not mandate a state form of worship as Great Britain had. The American people would be free to worship however they saw fit, or, free to not worship at all. Feelings aren't the point here either, but just the facts. The only thing the First Amendment says about religious freedom is that government shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion. Nothing says that government may not have religious symbols on government property, or even that government may not practice, or endorse any given form of religion. It's a long standing practice and tradition for our government officials to open with prayer, and in fact, the Continnenial Congress held a full blown worship service before doing the People's work. We ARE, and have been from our inception, a Christian nation. Where the Supreme Court presides, the Ten Commandments are etched into the wall. Our laws are fashioned after Judeo-Christian principles. By and large, the Holy Bible is used to swear an oath upon informal and legal settings. As much as history revisionists would like, they just cannot wipe clean our very Christian beginning and foundation as a country.
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Post by blackmouthcur on Jan 25, 2020 19:41:14 GMT -5
I’m just going to stick to hunting posts out of fear of being labeled a nimrod again.🤣
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Post by duff on Jan 25, 2020 22:05:34 GMT -5
I’m just going to stick to hunting posts out of fear of being labeled a nimrod again.🤣 I am mad that I tried to read these posts! It runs deep in here for sure.
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Post by bartiks on Jan 26, 2020 20:07:16 GMT -5
I’m just going to stick to hunting posts out of fear of being labeled a nimrod again.🤣 Whatever you say nimrod, and i couldn't agree more about it running deep. I guess what I'm getting at is as my uncle Bob put it. "Every Thanksgiving we come together to enjoy each others company, fight about politics and throw a grenade in the middle of the table and then argue about who threw the grenade." Oh and blackmouth, no hard feelings, I"m just enjoying my first amendment is all.
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Post by freedomhunter on Jan 26, 2020 20:41:10 GMT -5
I’m just going to stick to hunting posts out of fear of being labeled a nimrod again.🤣 Thought you be in Venezuela enjoying socialism by now. Hunting zoo animals for food and searching for toilet paper
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 26, 2020 21:48:31 GMT -5
I hope you all are just being funny.. sometimes it’s hard to tell..
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Post by blackmouthcur on Jan 27, 2020 8:26:56 GMT -5
I’m just going to stick to hunting posts out of fear of being labeled a nimrod again.🤣 Thought you be in Venezuela enjoying socialism by now. Hunting zoo animals for food and searching for toilet paper I knew you’d come out of the woodwork on that one.
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Post by moose1am on Jan 27, 2020 9:19:53 GMT -5
I'm confused here are we talking religion, politics or just general conversation. I don't know if I'm coming or going right now. Maybe what we are getting into here is the little know area of... wait for it.... ROLITICS. That's it, the government has finally found a way to infiltrate the last sanctuary we have. Although something comes to mind, I thought there was a clause of "separation of church and state". Or maybe that was just a general guideline for the fed to follow to finally accomplish what they had set out to do long ago. Either way, I'm still confused. The so-called "separation of church and state" is a myth. It's nowhere in any founding document. The First Amendment only says that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. In other words, you're free to worship as you please, or, not worship at all. But nothing in any founding document grants you any right to not be offended, or prohibits religious expressions on public or government properties. what is prevents is pushing other people to pray in government. yet the impeachment trial of Donald John Trump in the US Senate lead by the chief justice of the US Supreme court starts out with a prayer. Yet our high school football coach got into trouble by making his football players all pray together on the football field before or after the game was over. As for me, I don't believe in God anymore. I did at one time but can not see or feel what others say that they feel. God has never spoken to me nor has Jesus. In fact, I've never seen any proof that there is a God. I guess I'm free to state what I feel in here as others are doing that. I'm ok with others that believe in God or Jesus. That is their choice and my not believing is my choice. As long as others don't try to push their beliefs on others I'm fine with that. But a lot of religious people automatically think that everyone is like them and believes in the bible. That is not always the case. More and more people are secular these days.
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Post by swilk on Jan 27, 2020 9:55:14 GMT -5
My litmus test for government displays of religion is usually pretty easy ... replace the word God with Allah and see how you feel.
A person is upset a coach got in trouble for making his team pray and doesn't see the harm .... replace him with a coach that is making his team pray to Allah. Still feel the same?
A cross is placed on a public square and a group demands that it be taken down .... replace that cross with a symbol from the Islamic faith. Still feel the it should be there?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 10:58:34 GMT -5
The so called "separation of church and state" is a myth. It's nowhere in any founding document. The First Amendment only says that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. In other words, you're free to worship as you please, or, not worship at all. But nothing in any founding document grants you any right to not be offended, or prohibits religious expressions on public or government properties. what is prevents is pushing other people to pray in government. yet the impeachment trial of Donald John Trump in the US Senate lead by the chief Justice of the US Supreme court starts out with a prayer. Yet our high school football coach got into trouble by making his football players all pray together on the football fiend before or after the game was over. As for me, I don't believe in God anymore. I did at one time but can not see or feel what others say that they feel. God has never spoken to me nor has Jesus. In fact, I've never seen any proof that there is a God. I guess I'm free to state what I feel in here as others are doing that. I'm ok with others that believe in God or Jesus. That is their choice and my not believing is my choice. As long as others don't try to push their beliefs on others I'm fine with that. But a lot of religious people automatically think that everyone is like them and believes in the bible. That is not always the case. More and more people are secular these days. We are commanded to fulfill the Great Commission, to go out to all the world and preach the Gospel. Gospel means "good news", and it is the good news that before we were separated from God by our sin, but now, because of the Lamb of God, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, we can have forgiveness of sin, and restored fellowship with God, if we are born again, that is, if we`ve come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ. If you cry out to the Lord, He will make Himself known to you, but you won`t hear His Voice. He speaks to us through His Word, through His people, and through His Holy Spirit nudging us. To hear Him, you have to turn off the distractions. Psalm 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2020 20:37:44 GMT -5
We are now in the storm. It will end April 10th,a 30 day storm. Covid is part of the storm. Tomorrow afternoon it takes off. Pediphiliars, drug cartels, criminals in Hollywood and government will be removed. This is going on across must countries of the world. Follow the virus. Virus will end on the 10th. Be safe and enjoy the show. Where did most children come from. Same areas of the virus. I'm not making this up and some will die from this. 140 years being cleaned up.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2020 20:46:24 GMT -5
Just think out it. All the children are safe and not in schools. No more big crowds to hide in for safety.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 6:26:26 GMT -5
Just a quick question that`s a little off track: I`ve seen "NEW" next to several threads, including this one, that I`ve participated in, but am not getting notifications that there are new comments in several of those I`ve been active in. Is that normal, because on most of the threads I`ve been active in, I get notifications to let me know there`s a new post...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 6:33:13 GMT -5
Just a quick question that`s a little off track: I`ve seen "NEW" next to several threads, including this one, that I`ve I`ve participated in, but am not getting notifications that there are new comments in several of those I`ve been active in. Is that normal, because on most of the threads I`ve been active in, I get notifications to let me know there`s a new post... I think that how it works now.
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