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Post by jjas on Jan 7, 2020 11:31:13 GMT -5
My Indiana Senate contact says - “ I think Eberhart said he was just making what is in place permanent. I’m not sure what the DNR recommended.” Thanks for checking into it Woody.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 7, 2020 12:04:15 GMT -5
To make your feelings known on this I would suggest dropping Sean Eberhart an email, letter or phone call..
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Post by medic22 on Jan 7, 2020 14:45:16 GMT -5
I'm not much of a writer, but anyone feel free to copy and paste, or edit to your needs, unless youre planning on lobbying against legalization on public land. Then you dont have my permission lol
Mr. Eberhart
With the Indiana Hunting Rifle law sunsetting, I expect that will become petmanent law in short order.
Now that there is data to support legalized rifle calibers do not increase hunting/firearm related injury or death. I propose we see the law amended to include public land for reasons stated below.
1. Shotguns are currently legal for hunting deer on any land. It is well known in the firearms community that due to the mass of a shotgun slug, that with all things being equal, a ricochet of a shotgun slug can travel further than a 30-06, one of the most popular rifle calibers in America.
2. There are currently no caliber restrictions to hunt Coyotes on any land in Indiana. This type of hunting is done day or night with high powered rifles, with no documented increase in firearms related injuries.
3. Pistol Caliber rifles are legal on public land, with many of these rifles capable of a 300 yard effective range on game, not unlike many of the high powered rifles.
These pistol caliber rifles also create mass confusion with case measurement requirements, legalization of HPR's on all Indiana lands will remove a majority of confusion with state game laws.
4. Legalization of HPR's on private ground made them available for hunting in Indiana Reduction Zones. Reduction Zones are typically in close proximity to residential areas, again with no noted increase in personal or property damage or injury. Indiana's public lands are typically well removed from heavily populated residential areas.
I thank you for your time, and while I feel Indiana's game laws are best left to the oversight of DNR, legislation is in place that can make this a quick resolution. I hope youre colleagues can approach this topic with an open mind and an understanding that opinion and fact are not always equal, and the fact remains that no state that has enacted legalization of high powered rifles on public lands has seen an increase of firearms related injury or death.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 7, 2020 15:40:15 GMT -5
There has been 114,489 deer killed in the state as of today in which 8,340 have came from public grounds!
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Post by M4Madness on Jan 7, 2020 18:31:59 GMT -5
There has been 114,489 deer killed in the state as of today in which 8,340 have came from public grounds! Dang, that's a huge disparity! I would have thought that public lands would have yielded more than that. No wonder I've never jumped a deer while hiking any HNF properties. LOL!
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Post by medic22 on Jan 7, 2020 19:06:02 GMT -5
Put some stuff out on social media. Its going about as expected, been asked if I was crazy or stupid more than once in the last few hours.
Whatever, Im commiting to this.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 7, 2020 19:10:48 GMT -5
Put some stuff out on social media. Its going about as expected, been asked if I was crazy or stupid more than once in the last few hours. Whatever, Im commiting to this. Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the grey twilight that knows neither victory or defeat. Theodore Roosevelt
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Post by firstwd on Jan 7, 2020 19:28:27 GMT -5
There has been 114,489 deer killed in the state as of today in which 8,340 have came from public grounds! Not really far off comparing percentage of total ground verses public ground and percentage of total deer versus public ground deer. I'm actually impressed.
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Post by firstwd on Jan 7, 2020 19:29:24 GMT -5
Put some stuff out on social media. Its going about as expected, been asked if I was crazy or stupid more than once in the last few hours. Whatever, Im commiting to this. I'm with you.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 7, 2020 19:43:05 GMT -5
There has been 114,489 deer killed in the state as of today in which 8,340 have came from public grounds! Not really far off comparing percentage of total ground verses public ground and percentage of total deer versus public ground deer. I'm actually impressed. Yeah.... but how much private land is actually hunt able land... that’s the real question! Not all private land is hunt able land ... same with public! Anyone ever seen any figures how many hunters hunt what... some folks hunt private and public.
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Post by 36fan on Jan 10, 2020 9:08:13 GMT -5
I think he means through NRC with Indiana Administrative Code instead of through legislative process Indiana Code that couldn't get it right the first couple of times. Exactly.... pretty sure MOST knew what I trying to say! I only know what you said. FYI: Law = statute/Indiana code (IC), which is created through the legislative process Rule = Indiana Administrative Code (IAC), which describes how the law is going to be enforced by the agency assigned to enforce it. There is a difference, and whenever there is a dispute, contradiction, or disagreement in interpretation, the statute trumps the rule.
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Post by medic22 on Jan 11, 2020 10:21:19 GMT -5
Im currently going through injury reports from various states that allow centerfire rifles for deer hunting.
This is pretty damning data for the "its not safe" crowd.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 11, 2020 10:25:55 GMT -5
Im currently going through injury reports from various states that allow centerfire rifles for deer hunting. This is pretty damning data for the "its not safe" crowd. When checking that data,also check how much Hunter Orange is required also! Please report your findings on all fronts BTW...the length of the season would be interesting also!
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Post by medic22 on Jan 11, 2020 10:28:32 GMT -5
Im currently going through injury reports from various states that allow centerfire rifles for deer hunting. This is pretty damning data for the "its not safe" crowd. When checking that data,also check how much Hunter Orange is required also! Please report your findings on all fronts BTW...the length of the season would be interesting also! Ill do my best, a lot of info to go through.
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Post by jjas on Jan 11, 2020 11:50:00 GMT -5
There has been 114,489 deer killed in the state as of today in which 8,340 have came from public grounds! That works out to about 7% of the total harvest. I'm kind of surprised it isn't higher than that.
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Post by M4Madness on Jan 11, 2020 13:05:41 GMT -5
Im currently going through injury reports from various states that allow centerfire rifles for deer hunting. This is pretty damning data for the "its not safe" crowd. You should have seen all the shotgun slug injuries I researched when Indiana was first talking about legalizing HPR's for deer. The big question is: How many of those injuries that you've found were accidents that would not have happened had they been slug guns? All that matters to Indiana is that there hasn't been a single incident of someone being shot by a deer hunter with a rifle in Indiana since they were legalized. And I'm not aware of any property damage caused by them either. There was the time a building was hit and initial blame was laid on a hunter until it was proven to be someone target shooting.
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Post by esshup on Jan 11, 2020 13:20:21 GMT -5
Also, when going thru the data for the centerfire rifle injuries, there are injuries/deaths that are intentional that I believe are counted in the stats. The following incident would be murder, not a hunting accident. I was hunting in Wisconsin in Vilas County at the time that this happened, not 50 miles from where it happened. www.thoughtco.com/six-killed-in-wisconsin-hunting-incident-972787I know there was one person that died during the 2019 Wisconsin Deer Hunting Season that died of natural causes. Nov. 23, 2019. He collapsed and died as he was preparing to field dress his deer.
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Post by M4Madness on Jan 11, 2020 13:32:43 GMT -5
I have zero problems with Indiana legalizing HPR's for public ground and I feel that it's dumb for them to allow them on private but not public. I no longer hunt public property, but if I did, I'd know that even today I'm not restricted to PCR's there. I can use about any caliber I want in an AR pistol -- be it .300 Blackout, .243, .308, 6.8 SPC, etc. I'd use this, minus the suppressor, since Indiana took it upon itself to exclude them from public ground:
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Post by medic22 on Jan 11, 2020 13:39:12 GMT -5
Im currently going through injury reports from various states that allow centerfire rifles for deer hunting. This is pretty damning data for the "its not safe" crowd. You should have seen all the shotgun slug injuries I researched when Indiana was first talking about legalizing HPR's for deer. The big question is: How many of those injuries that you've found were accidents that would not have happened had they been slug guns? All that matters to Indiana is that there hasn't been a single incident of someone being shot by a deer hunter with a rifle in Indiana since they were legalized. And I'm not aware of any property damage caused by them either. There was the time a building was hit and initial blame was laid on a hunter until it was proven to be someone target shooting. Its a little hard to say anything definitive right now, im having some difficulty finding injury data for some states and every state reports different data. I can confidently say that deer drives are more dangerous than rifles (excluding the point that rifles are used in deer drives, but rifles are not the causation). A hunter is more likely to suffer a self inflicted GSW than be shot by another hunter. In the state of Illinois you are more likely to die of natural causes while hunting than to be shot by another hunter. So far I can only find 2 instances with known distance (605 and 467 yds, in the state of Wisconsin) where someone was injured with a rifle at a distance a slug was unlikely, but did find one instance in Illinois (not an hpr state) where a hunter was killed by a 12 gauge slug at over 400 yards. Wisonsin did begin publishing private and public property info a few years ago and it appears youre more likely to be injured wtlith a firearm on private land. Which I find interesting as Wisconsin has 13.7 hunters per sq mile density versus Indianas 10.8, unable to differentiate hunter density on public versus private so that data is states as a whole.
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Post by esshup on Jan 11, 2020 14:04:15 GMT -5
Wisonsin did begin publishing private and public property info a few years ago and it appears youre more likely to be injured wtlith a firearm on private land. Which I find interesting as Wisconsin has 13.7 hunters per sq mile density versus Indianas 10.8, unable to differentiate hunter density on public versus private so that data is states as a whole. I have hunted deer in Wisconisn for a long time. BUT all my experience has been in the big woods of Northern Wisconsin where deer density is low. Up there, I'd be surprised if hunter density was more than 5 per square mile, and more likely in the 2-3 range, especially in the past 5-7 years. The deer herd population drop, combined with booming 4 legged apex predator populations mean that less and less hunters are in the field basically because there are no deer to be hunted. Wisconsin DNR published a statistic this year saying that in some counties wolves killed more deer than hunters did. 20-25 years ago we could count more than 200 shots heard opening morning. Last few years it was rare to hear more than 20 and the number this year was less than 10.
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