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Post by esshup on Jun 22, 2019 13:08:27 GMT -5
saami.org/technical-information/new-cartridge-chamber-drawings/Am I reading this wrong? I am reading this as a .357" +0.000", -.003" bullet dia., .346" bore dia, .355" groove dia., all dim -.000", +.002". So, regardless of what the bullet mics, I am assuming that this will be public land legal in Indiana according to the regs. Correct??
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Post by mgderf on Jun 24, 2019 5:52:12 GMT -5
I was under the impression that the projectile needed to be .357" diameter to satisfy the deer regs for public land.
I've also read that the .350 Legend uses a projectile UNDER the .357" minimum.
I've been wrong before, but I believe the .350 Legend is going to be legal on private land only.
NOT on public lands.
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Post by greghopper on Jun 24, 2019 6:45:53 GMT -5
public and private land
Rifles chambered for cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger, have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches, and have a maximum case length of 1.8 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms, youth, reduction zones from Nov. 17-Jan. 31 (in zones where local ordinances allow the use of a firearm), and special antlerless seasons. These rifle cartridges can be used on public and private land.
private land only
The cartridge must have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 3 inches.
The cartridge must fire a bullet with a minimum diameter of .243 inches (same as 6 mm).
A hunter must not possess more than 10 of these cartridges while hunting deer.
Full metal jacketed bullets are illegal.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 6:53:27 GMT -5
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Post by jjas on Jun 26, 2019 8:36:37 GMT -5
Here's the SAAMI data I found... saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/350-Legend-CC-Drawing-Website.pdfI'm hardly an expert on the subject, but it appears to be in order to me. If it's not, then Winchester has apparently wasted a whole lot of time and money as these rounds apparently wouldn't be legal in Michigan, Ohio, Iowa, Illinois...and only legal in Indiana on private property. It should be interesting to see how this all shakes out. |
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Post by oldhoyt on Jun 26, 2019 9:49:37 GMT -5
Based on the drawing it's legal with a projectile measuring 0.357. Apparently some folks have measured factory ammo and found projectiles at 0.355.
The language for public and private land states that RIFLES chambered for cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger with a minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.8 inches are legal to use. That would mean as long as your chamber is cut correct, you're legal.
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Post by jjas on Jun 26, 2019 12:02:27 GMT -5
Based on the drawing it's legal with a projectile measuring 0.357. Apparently some folks have measured factory ammo and found projectiles at 0.355. The language for public and private land states that RIFLES chambered for cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger with a minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.8 inches are legal to use. That would mean as long as your chamber is cut correct, you're legal. I would agree, but then again I don't have the ultimate say... I posted this question to the conservation officer and (based on the data from Winchester) he said it was legal. Perhaps it will change, but I can't believe Winchester would put this out knowing that the somewhat limited customer base they are marketing this to could have an issue due to bullet diameter. |
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Post by deadeer on Jun 26, 2019 12:44:38 GMT -5
Typically 9mm bullets are .355", not intended for deer sized game. So unlikely that is the intention.
357mag, 357max, and 38sp are .357" and have better selection for game.
I shoot .358 rifle bullets from my 357max and 358win. Lots of big game bullet selection there.
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Post by jjas on Jun 27, 2019 7:58:24 GMT -5
From the site's Conservation Officer that answers questions like these....
Is the .350 Legend legal for deer hunting (including on public ground) in Indiana?
The SAAMI specs for the round are 0.355" bullets and a 0.357" throat for the chamber.
Winchester ammo that has been made available to the public so far has been measured to indeed only be 0.355" diameter.
It is my understanding that this round would only be legal on private property.
Based upon the answers provided, it appears to me that the .350 Legend meets the criteria for use on private or public ground at this time.
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Post by esshup on Jun 27, 2019 16:40:29 GMT -5
From the site's Conservation Officer that answers questions like these.... Is the .350 Legend legal for deer hunting (including on public ground) in Indiana? The SAAMI specs for the round are 0.355" bullets and a 0.357" throat for the chamber. Winchester ammo that has been made available to the public so far has been measured to indeed only be 0.355" diameter. It is my understanding that this round would only be legal on private property. Based upon the answers provided, it appears to me that the .350 Legend meets the criteria for use on private or public ground at this time. I believe the drawings read .357" +0.0", -.003" bullet dia, .351" throat, .346" bore dia, .355" groove dia. Throat, groove and bore dia +0.002" -0.000" tolerance. |
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Post by omegahunter on Jul 10, 2019 8:14:01 GMT -5
From the site's Conservation Officer that answers questions like these.... Is the .350 Legend legal for deer hunting (including on public ground) in Indiana? The SAAMI specs for the round are 0.355" bullets and a 0.357" throat for the chamber. Winchester ammo that has been made available to the public so far has been measured to indeed only be 0.355" diameter. It is my understanding that this round would only be legal on private property. Based upon the answers provided, it appears to me that the .350 Legend meets the criteria for use on private or public ground at this time. Those are not the answers that we were given when the initial "rifle" season specs were given. We were told that no matter what the rifle/cartridge was labeled, that they would be checking dimensions of the bullets and cartridges to ensure that the Indiana laws were being followed. Winchester is playing a game that is going to cost a lot of people money, game, and maybe hunting privileges by giving SAAMI specs of .355" bullets and bores and then advertising on their website a different set of specs that they are not even loading to themselves. |
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Post by jjas on Jul 10, 2019 8:38:37 GMT -5
Omegahunter
I can only go by what was posted. Perhaps you should contact the Indiana DNR directly and ask your questions.
Perhaps there is a bit of "play" in the specs that is acceptable? If not, then maybe Winchester screwed up. Time will tell.
Would I buy a .350 legend right now? Nope. But then, I normally won't purchase any item when it first comes out of the gate. A year from now, I figure the dust will settle and we'll all know whether it's worth owning and if it's legal in Indiana.
But here's the biggest wildcard in this whole situation...
None of this will matter (at least on private ground) if after the HPR law sunsets in 2020, the DNR adopts the HPR rules for deer seasons in the future. Same thing holds if the DNR stays silent and the legislature gets involved and pushes it through again next year.
What I hope happens is that a ruling is made not only on the .350 Legend, but all of this nonsense. It's ridiculous how the hpr rule was pushed through, but now that they've been legal, there are a lot of hunters in Indiana who are likely to be pretty p*ssed off if they are outlawed...
Does that include me? Not really. I've hunted with an hpr, but I still have my .44 mag and can use that instead.
What I really want is for this whole mess to be cleaned up and whatever firearms end up being legal, will be legal for both private and public ground.
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Post by js2397 on Jul 10, 2019 11:42:11 GMT -5
It looks like the drawing shows the bullet diameter to be .357. Am I not looking at it correctly? The barrel diameter is irrelevant, only the cartridge and projectile matter.
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Post by oldhoyt on Jul 10, 2019 13:29:24 GMT -5
Yes, barrel diameter is irrelevant although at some point it could definitely be problematic.
The rifle must be CHAMBERED to fire .357 bullets.
The cartridges also must fire .357 bullets and that's the issue (if there is one) with Winchester factory ammo coming in at .355. If their intent was to be Indiana legal (public land), why didn't they use .357 or .358 bullets and increase the throat/lands/grooves specs by .002 to .003? Is there already a number of .355 projectiles out there, making it easier to develop their loads? I'm no expert but I believe there are more .357 and .358 projectiles to choose from.
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Post by jjas on Jul 10, 2019 14:10:37 GMT -5
I sent an email to Joe Caudell @ the IDNR. I'll let you know what he says about it.
I also contacted Winchester to get their take on it. If they reply, I'll post it here.
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Post by greghopper on Jul 10, 2019 14:40:22 GMT -5
I sent an email to Joe Caudell @ the IDNR. I'll let you know what he says about it. I also contacted Winchester to get their take on it. If they reply, I'll post it here. This has already been answered in CO thread.... they are the ones writing the tickets and checking the ammunition in the field! This is a perfect example of how things get miss-construed! |
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Post by jjas on Jul 10, 2019 14:57:43 GMT -5
I sent an email to Joe Caudell @ the IDNR. I'll let you know what he says about it. I also contacted Winchester to get their take on it. If they reply, I'll post it here. This has already been answered in CO thread.... they are the ones writing the tickets and checking the ammunition in the field! This is a perfect example of how things get miss-construed! I'm the person who asked the conservation officer to begin with... I would rather get a clarification before someone goes out and buys a rifle they think is legal on both public and private ground only to find out later that it's only legal for private land and maybe only legal on private land this deer season, (depending upon what happens with the hpr law after it sunsets in 2020). |
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Post by greghopper on Jul 10, 2019 15:11:54 GMT -5
Ok... didn't realize the CO answer didn't clarify it for you!
Good luck in finding a clearer answer I guess.... Not sure who over rides a CO.
So who do we believe?
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Post by jjas on Jul 10, 2019 15:46:54 GMT -5
Ok... didn't realize the CO answer didn't clarify it for you! Good luck in finding a clearer answer I guess.... Not sure who over rides a CO. So who do we believe? Ultimately I would think the IDNR would say yes or no. I'm still waiting to hear from them. Winchester answered my email and says it's legal in Indiana, Iowa and Michigan. I would have been surprised if they had said otherwise. |
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Post by greghopper on Jul 10, 2019 15:50:09 GMT -5
My point is we shouldn't be shopping answers... that's what the "ask a CO "forum is for IMO
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