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Post by cambygsp on Jul 27, 2005 5:59:49 GMT -5
www.amnews.com/public_html/?module=displaystory&story_id=15039&format=htmlWhatever weapon you choose to pursue deer, whether it be a percussion cap muzzleloader, an in-line muzzleloader, a center-fire rifle, a shotgun with slugs, a compound, a long bow or recurve, or a crossbow, hunters need to stick together. With our hunting and fishing privileges under attack from PETA and other animal rights groups, we need to consolidate ourselves as a body to combat those that would take our privileges away. It's your choice. Either you fight for your rights, or you will lose them. Let's not bicker among ourselves, giving these groups ammunition against us. It's just not the thing to do. Don't you agree?
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Post by John on Jul 27, 2005 7:50:40 GMT -5
I personally have never fought against any type of hunting for the same reason you stated ,"Unity". I have fought "for" different types of hunting, never against any. "Personally" I don't really appreciate anyone who does fight against other hunters or types. Why can't we all just get along? My "Motto".
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Post by jh45gun on Jul 27, 2005 11:41:16 GMT -5
www.amnews.com/public_html/?module=displaystory&story_id=15039&format=htmlWhatever weapon you choose to pursue deer, whether it be a percussion cap muzzleloader, an in-line muzzleloader, a center-fire rifle, a shotgun with slugs, a compound, a long bow or recurve, or a crossbow, hunters need to stick together. With our hunting and fishing privileges under attack from PETA and other animal rights groups, we need to consolidate ourselves as a body to combat those that would take our privileges away. It's your choice. Either you fight for your rights, or you will lose them. Let's not bicker among ourselves, giving these groups ammunition against us. It's just not the thing to do. Don't you agree? Great thought and I wish it were true but you have traditional muzzle loader folks mad about inlines as they have fought for a season and now they feel threatened as it is not as they envisioned. Bear Dog hunters against the baiters and just the oposite. Gun hunters against Bow hunters ect. More importantly for here you have bow hunters who are against crossbow hunting as they think crossbows are too easy yet these same folks who use compound bows today and are against xbows are the same folks who went against the traditional bow hunters who again fought for their own season as they were not happy with the compounds coming into the sport you would think these folks would realize that and not be so against xbows. You have lots of bow hunters who do not support gun issues as it does not pertain to them not realizing that many of the anti gun folks are also anti hunting and that bow hunters would be next. Yea I would be nice if we all could get along and ban together against the anti hunters. Maybe some day if every one feels threatened enough by the antis they may ban together hopefully by then it will not be too late. jim |
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 27, 2005 11:56:01 GMT -5
jh45gun,
I agree.You've made some excellent points.
I really do believe that a lot of hunters don't really want any more hunters out there. They believe that could do a couple of things:
1) Mess them up
2) The other guy could get that buck that they want.
Two not so very good reasons.
We had better settle our differences and concentrate on the real enemies of hunting. The Animal Righst People that would take away ALL hunting no matter what we hunt with.
We need to recruit new hunters or hunting will die a slow death..
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Post by Doug/Va on Jul 27, 2005 13:02:46 GMT -5
cambygsp, you forgot flintlock muzzleloaders. ;D Now that is my cup of tea.  But I think hunting with a crossbow is going to be a lot of fun to.  |
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Post by kevin1 on Jul 27, 2005 15:52:18 GMT -5
cambygsp, you forgot flintlock muzzleloaders. ;D Now that is my cup of tea. But I think hunting with a crossbow is going to be a lot of fun to. Those flintys look pretty fun too , I may just get one . |
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Post by jdmiller on Jul 27, 2005 16:40:24 GMT -5
The crossbow expansion issue in Kentucky has been just that.... hunters against hunters . Some of you know our situation down here but I'll bring everyone up to speed . On March 4 , 2005 the KDF&W commissioners met , voted and passed the expansion of crossbows throughout archery season . On June 4, 2005 they postponed the expansion . What went on in between this time period till present is a disgrace .
The postponement was announced by our now commissioner of the KDF&W John Gassett . He stated to the effect " we have sufficient evidence that crossbows being used throughout the archery deer and turkey season will have no effect on these resources . Its a social issue concerning shared use ".
Let me define "social issue".....it means selfishness . We had one bowhunting organization in paticular that was so opposed to allowing crossbows they would not accept any information , survey or statistics that would prove them wrong. They circumvented the whole process and involved people in a higher level of state government that applied enough pressure to have the KDF&W postpone it . They have set a precident that has basically upset the normal process in which the very people that manage our resources have always used .
A wedge has been driven between many sportsmen in our state . Malicious statements and false information has and still is being spread concerning crossbows . Crossbows are very foreign to most people in our state. The origional survey showed the largest percentage in our state was those that dont really care either way . Comments like... a crossbow can be shot by anyone accurately at a 100yds and other false statements may effect this percentage in the next survey . This concerns me .
I dont mean to get on my soapbox but we should never let oppertunity come down to a vote . Those opposed to crossbow expansion will not accept the benefits they bring . Children , spouses and older hunters could be introduced or reintroduced to the sport of archery . Communities , businesses , local and state government can benefit from a increase in hunters . Revenue generated could be put into hunter youth programs and for aquiring more acreage fo WMA's . The issue of declining license sales should throw up a red flag to all sportsmen .... reguardless of weapon choice .
The bottom line is we all need to focus on the bigger issues and show a united effort . In Kentucky the battle continues and the wounds are going to be slow to heal but we need to be dillagent in promoting our sport or we may not have a sport to promote .
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Post by Doug/Va on Jul 27, 2005 19:46:16 GMT -5
jdmiller, the same thing happened when Savage brought out the smokeless muzzleloader. Now Virginia has banned it's use in the special muzzleloader season if you use smokeless in one. This is the way I feel. Live and let live. If I want to use my flintlock in muzzleloader season and Bill Snottynose wants to use his whiz-bang inline I don't care nor do I feel he is "outgunning me". I think it is the hunter and not the gun or bow which makes or breaks the hunt. I think as hunters could better ourselves by practicing more and not to bicker as to what our fellow hunter wants to use. |
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Post by raporter1 on Jul 27, 2005 21:41:13 GMT -5
When did it become not the hunt but what you chose to hunt with.  |
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Post by jbwhttail on Jul 27, 2005 22:33:17 GMT -5
1. This forum is intended for crossbow shooters/hunters to discuss crossbows, crossbow equipment, and crossbow specific techniques and tactics. It is NOT intended for bashing and flame wars regarding the suitability of crossbows for hunting or if they should be classified as archery tackle.
Camby done went and broke rule #1........
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Post by jh45gun on Jul 27, 2005 22:39:59 GMT -5
JD Miller it is the same in WI the WI bow hunters association is dead set against crossbows and had their members at all the conservation congress hearings this spring. The same old BS of 100 yard shots ect were prevlent put out as false info by the WBHA. Doug I have nothing against the Savage it looks like a nice gun my only worry is some one shooting smokeless in a muzzle loader not set up for it. I have alreay had one guy ask at a site that moderate and am a administrator there ask about getting some one to convert a Encore muzzle loader to smokeless. Not to be picky as I have a Huntsman but muzzle loaders used to be considered non guns by the BATF now with the savage and the Encores and the huntsmans ect that are considered guns I hope that does not set a precident with the batf to consider all Muzzle loaders the same. it is nice to be able to mail order these ones that are not considered guns. I know that is picky and it does really not make sense to call a gun a non gun but that is how the batf classifies muzzle loaders. Woody the future of hunting is getting the ladies involved and the kids. Get mom involved and maybe that son or daugher who never decided to hunt just may and the ladies that are going into the sport really like it and I have no issue with the ladies in what used to be a guys sport. If not for them we will slowly be over run by the anti's Get some determined ladies in the front line and we stand a chance. It is hard to criminalize guns and bows ect when some petite lady is holding one in a sport she enjoys wether it be trap and skeet or hunting or 3 d shooting ect ect. You are also right Woody about guys not wanting other guys out in the woods for the reasons you stated and others. It is too bad some guys get the attitude it is their deer because they baited it or it has crossed their land or where they hunt. I have heard MY deer so often in conversations that is absurd. It is YOUR deer when you harvest it until then it is fair game for who ever gets a chance at it. Too bad not all realize that. Jim |
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Post by Doug/Va on Jul 28, 2005 6:44:48 GMT -5
jh45gun, as far as I know the Savage is not considered a modern firearm by the BATF. I know when I got mine there was no paperwork, and this was the reason Savage changed the gun and called the newer one the model 10-II. The Encore is another story since you can switch to a modern centerfire barrel. The old adage of using smokeless in a gun not made for it don't really hold up. The reason I say this is because it happens all the time and did before the Savage was ever thought of. Now you have the option of buying a muzzleloader you can safely shoot smokeless in. But this is all off topic and I apologize for it but I thought it needed to be said. As far as a crossbow shooting accurately to 100 yards is complete nonsense. I think some people may have gotten this from books which told of crossbows that were used in the middle ages. I seem to remember reading something to the effect they were accurate to 100 yards. I didn't believe it then and don't believe it now. As far as hearing someone say "my deer" boy I have heard that one so many times it makes me sick. You are 100 % correct it is a wild animal with no one's name on it...until it has been harvested. |
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Post by Doug/Va on Jul 28, 2005 6:57:32 GMT -5
When did it become not the hunt but what you chose to hunt with. I don't know when it happened but it seems that way with a lot of hunters. Why do you think so many hunters are against modern inlines? Because they think they give the other hunter some advantage over them. Some bowhunters are the same way with compound bows who use a long bow. And you will see the same thing about crossbows. I think we hunters need to stop and think this over. Does an inline really give any advantage, or is it the hunter himself. Do we really need to get that deer, is it a life or death situation? Or are we out there for the fun of it and IF we harvest a deer that is only frosting on the cake. Together we stand and divided we fall. That is something else to think about. |
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Post by jh45gun on Jul 28, 2005 8:02:13 GMT -5
A muzle loader is a muzzle loader period they have the same trajectory and use the same type of bullets if conicals are used.Round balls are a other story they loose energy faster so the ranges should be shorter. While they claim some rifles can shoot accuratly out to 200 yards to harvest deer a lot of hunters are not up to it and should limit their shooting to under 150 yards some I would bet a 100. Yea scoped inlines may be more of a sighting advantage over open sight traditional guns but they can be scoped too if need be. As far as crossbows and bows go they both have about the same limitations and problems and the bow hunters who say that crossbows are so easy to shoot evidently never shot one they need just as much practice as regular bow shooting does. Hunting for its self is great if a person gets a animal so much the better but it is not life or death but some folks sure think so. Too much hype nowdays is on Trophy racks and the he man thing of getting a buck. Heck I like Venison I have shot more does than bucks in my hunting career and I do not care at all. A buck is nice but I really like Venison so a doe harvested under a anterless tag I will do and be thankfull for it.
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Post by jdmiller on Jul 28, 2005 8:30:47 GMT -5
1. This forum is intended for crossbow shooters/hunters to discuss crossbows, crossbow equipment, and crossbow specific techniques and tactics. It is NOT intended for bashing and flame wars regarding the suitability of crossbows for hunting or if they should be classified as archery tackle. Camby done went and broke rule #1........ I kinda disagree . I think all that has participated in this section has picked up a crossbow for one reason or another . This topic of discussion is definitely not a flame war and no one has bashed us because we choose a crossbow . I've participated in those flame wars and they always get started by someone that dont have a clue to how a crossbow operates . Woody could feel free to pull any comment I make that he doesnt feel appropriate. I also think he would have stopped this before it started . He is pretty seasoned when it comes to controversies concerning crossbows . Occasional topics as this keep us focused . At the present time those that do not live in states that have passed crossbow expansion should be prepared to defend our choice of weapon . We should do this in a manner to not alienate anyone . We should promote their use and not bury our heads in the sand . However I dont like it to be the constant topic of discussion either . I like to hear from those more experienced than I .. about brands , set-ups and hunting related information . But every once in awhile ..... we need a topic that makes you think and discuss the issues at hand . |
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wabi
Junior Member
Posts: 26
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Post by wabi on Jul 28, 2005 8:37:18 GMT -5
They say "time heals all wounds" and I know for sure time changes a lot of opinions There was a day I could take my longbow, a flintlock with primitive sights, or similar choice of arms and be just as good as the guys that used all the "gadgets" to be better shots. Bone spurs in the shoulder, and aging eyes changed that. I now hunt with a crossbow with optical sights, an inline with optical sights, and use all the gadgets I can get hold of to help me shoot as accurately as I can. I also learned it isn't about trying to cheat or make hunting easier, it's all about making one shot count! The deer are still hard to hunt, but when I make a shot I want to know it's going to go where I want it to, and the crossbow with optical sights are about the only way I can launch arrows accurately at my age and with my physical limitations, so that's what I hunt with. Am I cheating? I don't think so! I'm just using whatever I can to still be able to enjoy hunting and showing enough respect for the animals I hunt to make the best attempt I can to make all my shots count! |
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 28, 2005 8:45:13 GMT -5
They say "time heals all wounds" and I know for sure time changes a lot of opinions There was a day I could take my longbow, a flintlock with primitive sights, or similar choice of arms and be just as good as the guys that used all the "gadgets" to be better shots. Bone spurs in the shoulder, and aging eyes changed that. I now hunt with a crossbow with optical sights, an inline with optical sights, and use all the gadgets I can get hold of to help me shoot as accurately as I can. I also learned it isn't about trying to cheat or make hunting easier, it's all about making one shot count! The deer are still hard to hunt, but when I make a shot I want to know it's going to go where I want it to, and the crossbow with optical sights are about the only way I can launch arrows accurately at my age and with my physical limitations, so that's what I hunt with. Am I cheating? I don't think so! I'm just using whatever I can to still be able to enjoy hunting and showing enough respect for the animals I hunt to make the best attempt I can to make all my shots count! . |
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Post by schoolmaster on Jul 28, 2005 11:28:40 GMT -5
I had to quit bowhunting for several years because of rotator cuff problems. I simply could not draw my bow. I finally got a handicapped crossbow permit and got to hunt last archery season for the first time in years. I am not comfortable taking a shot at over 30 yards so had to pass on the only opportunity I had. 39 yards just was too far for me. I really enjoyed the time spent crossbow hunting and am looking forward to this next season.
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Post by Doug/Va on Jul 28, 2005 11:52:30 GMT -5
wabi, I'm glad you can get out there and hunt. I for one think it is a godsend to see people like you be able to hunt once again. I hope you will be able to get you a nice deer this season with your crossbow. And like Woody said about your post above. Well said Sir! |
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Post by jh45gun on Jul 28, 2005 15:22:17 GMT -5
They say "time heals all wounds" and I know for sure time changes a lot of opinions There was a day I could take my longbow, a flintlock with primitive sights, or similar choice of arms and be just as good as the guys that used all the "gadgets" to be better shots. Bone spurs in the shoulder, and aging eyes changed that. I now hunt with a crossbow with optical sights, an inline with optical sights, and use all the gadgets I can get hold of to help me shoot as accurately as I can. I also learned it isn't about trying to cheat or make hunting easier, it's all about making one shot count! The deer are still hard to hunt, but when I make a shot I want to know it's going to go where I want it to, and the crossbow with optical sights are about the only way I can launch arrows accurately at my age and with my physical limitations, so that's what I hunt with. Am I cheating? I don't think so! I'm just using whatever I can to still be able to enjoy hunting and showing enough respect for the animals I hunt to make the best attempt I can to make all my shots count! Well said Wabi, I agree the big thing is you are hunting. To be honest after thinking about this thread I think most here want to harvest their animals the best they can and not have a wounded animal escape. So that means like Wabi said use the best eqipment possible to still allow you to hunt and to the job right. Too bad so many self rightious hunters out there that are stuck in their own little world loose track of that fact. |
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But I think hunting with a crossbow is going to be a lot of fun to. 
