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Post by thecommissioner on Jan 17, 2018 11:47:48 GMT -5
Guys,
I am looking for the most basic instruction on establishing a very small (50 yds x 20 yds) food plot that will attract deer during the November and December seasons. Hopefully the plot is beneficial to small game too. Unfortunately I have absolutely no farming knowledge or experience other than growing a few tomato plants in the backyard. But...I do have a 33 HP Kubota tractor and rotary mower so I'm doing okay there.
I don't understand any of the stuff about 'drills' or how to cover the seed with dirt. What I need is advice about what other equipment I need to prepare the soil and and the get seeds in the soil and ready to germinate. I go to auctions and can probably get what I need if I knew what to look for. Since the plot is so small, I don't want to invest a lot of money in equipment.
The plot site is next to my fishing pond and since runoff with fertilizer and herbicides is not good, I want to keep the plot as 'organic' as possible. The site is open to sunlight all the time. No shade from trees.
Please let me know what to get and how to do it if you can. Thanks!
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Post by tynimiller on Jan 17, 2018 12:45:24 GMT -5
Most basic and simple (avoid soil test, lime, fertilizer):
-Glyphosate (roundup) spray the area in Spring after green up.
-Spray it again around late July.
-Wait until rain is predicted 2 or 3 times in a 7 to 8 day stretch (pretty solid chances not like 30% or so)
-Go to local seed business and as for clover seed blend if they have one for about .25 acre worth (you have .20 acres)
IF they don't have a mix or are willing to do one just ask for some annual and some perrenial clovers in about .25 acre worth.
-Also get about 20 pounds of CEREAL Rye.
-Spread all of the above right before the first of the 3 predicted rains...I live in the northern edge of IN and shoot for last week of August/first week of September. Swing either way another week and you'll be okay depending on weather.
-YOU are done till next spring/summer.
-The following late Spring to Summer the Rye will grow tall and once it heads out just mow/clip the plot to about 6 inches or so. Clover will take over.
I highly encourage taking a soil sample and finding out if you need lime and such. Also clover won't need much nitrogen to grow but I'd even without a soil sample not be afraid to throw some phosphorous down at planting.
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Post by tynimiller on Jan 17, 2018 12:46:42 GMT -5
Oh and Lime wouldn't hurt anything if runs into the water. Also unless you get the fertilizer in the water, I would bet the plants and such will utilize any of it put down that run off into the water would be quite minimal as well.
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Post by swilk on Jan 17, 2018 14:04:44 GMT -5
On such a small plot I'd do what Ty said with a couple changes...
Spray early. Spray again a couple weeks before you plan to plant. Use a broadcast seeder to spread the seed. Mow immediately after broadcasting seed.
My seed choices would differ a bit though...after my personal observations I would never personally plant any mix that didn't include turnips and radishes if deer were my primary concern.
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Post by thecommissioner on Jan 17, 2018 22:53:33 GMT -5
Oh and Lime wouldn't hurt anything if runs into the water. Also unless you get the fertilizer in the water, I would bet the plants and such will utilize any of it put down that run off into the water would be quite minimal as well. The plot is very close to the pond and I would be playing with fire if I used Round-up because I understand it's deadly to fish. What happens is in a heavy rain there will be run-off across the plot and I'm positive that any fertilizer that is 'mobile' will find its way into the pond, thus accelerating the growth of filamentous algae. That really needs to be avoided since it negatively impacts fishing. How is the clover/rye seed distributed? Do I need some kind of mechanical spreader or is one of those things with a bag and hand crank sufficient? Also, does the clover/rye seed need to be incorporated into the soil or is it just left on the surface? Thanks for the help guys! |
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Post by duff on Jan 18, 2018 4:52:44 GMT -5
Glyphosate is fast acting. Biggest concern is wind drift. Once it is applied not really a run off issue. And i dont think it is toxic to fish, but maybe i am wrong.
Fertalizers will run off and be death to your pond. Without knowing how close it is or the slope you are faced with it is hard to give advice. Maybe you can light appliy fertalizer on opposite end of plot. Leave filtering strips but dont kid yourself into thinking the grasses will keep fertalizer out of your pond.
The bad with a hand crank is perfect. Dont over seed. That will create too much competition and make the plants tall and wispy. You want them putting energy in bulk, at least turnips and radishes.
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Post by tynimiller on Jan 18, 2018 8:19:30 GMT -5
On such a small plot I'd do what Ty said with a couple changes... Spray early. Spray again a couple weeks before you plan to plant. Use a broadcast seeder to spread the seed. Mow immediately after broadcasting seed. My seed choices would differ a bit though...after my personal observations I would never personally plant any mix that didn't include turnips and radishes if deer were my primary concern. Be easy enough to include...I was thinking long term maintenance is lower on clover plot is all but I agree 100% OP, spraying gly onto the spot during a dry calm day will not harm the pond AT ALL. Shoot I spot spray around my apple trees and even baby plantings just being sure spray doesn't hit them....also fertilizer is going to be put down in such a small amount that any (I doubt it) that reaches the water will be so dilluted it won't harm it anyways and are natural mineral compounds anyways (not talking chemicals here). Killing the spot is a must otherwise you will not see that great of success if any...if you want to go natural fertilizers start researching the various types of animal crap you can find around you and what it provides nutrient wise....bat guano I've read is amazing...but expensive. |
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Post by benj on Jan 18, 2018 9:57:33 GMT -5
On such a small plot I'd do what Ty said with a couple changes... Spray early. Spray again a couple weeks before you plan to plant. Use a broadcast seeder to spread the seed. Mow immediately after broadcasting seed. My seed choices would differ a bit though...after my personal observations I would never personally plant any mix that didn't include turnips and radishes if deer were my primary concern. Be easy enough to include...I was thinking long term maintenance is lower on clover plot is all but I agree 100% OP, spraying gly onto the spot during a dry calm day will not harm the pond AT ALL. Shoot I spot spray around my apple trees and even baby plantings just being sure spray doesn't hit them....also fertilizer is going to be put down in such a small amount that any (I doubt it) that reaches the water will be so dilluted it won't harm it anyways and are natural mineral compounds anyways (not talking chemicals here). Killing the spot is a must otherwise you will not see that great of success if any...if you want to go natural fertilizers start researching the various types of animal crap you can find around you and what it provides nutrient wise....bat guano I've read is amazing...but expensive.Chicken manure is very high in nitrogen as well, and may be easier to come by at a lower price point! |
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Post by duff on Jan 18, 2018 11:34:45 GMT -5
On such a small plot I'd do what Ty said with a couple changes... Spray early. Spray again a couple weeks before you plan to plant. Use a broadcast seeder to spread the seed. Mow immediately after broadcasting seed. My seed choices would differ a bit though...after my personal observations I would never personally plant any mix that didn't include turnips and radishes if deer were my primary concern. Be easy enough to include...I was thinking long term maintenance is lower on clover plot is all but I agree 100% OP, spraying gly onto the spot during a dry calm day will not harm the pond AT ALL. Shoot I spot spray around my apple trees and even baby plantings just being sure spray doesn't hit them....also fertilizer is going to be put down in such a small amount that any (I doubt it) that reaches the water will be so dilluted it won't harm it anyways and are natural mineral compounds anyways (not talking chemicals here). Killing the spot is a must otherwise you will not see that great of success if any...if you want to go natural fertilizers start researching the various types of animal crap you can find around you and what it provides nutrient wise....bat guano I've read is amazing...but expensive. Fertalizer may be natural but can be extreemly harmful to a pond. Even blowing grass clippings into a pond is bad for overall water quality |
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Post by throbak on Jan 18, 2018 12:28:58 GMT -5
Only thing I would add is after the fall planting I would Frost seed some in the same plot always helped me tremendously .
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Post by steiny on Jan 18, 2018 16:22:02 GMT -5
You are talking about less than 1/4 acre. I'd probably plant with purple top turnips which can be purchased on line at any number of places. 1# of seed will be more than enough. With turnips you get a lot of high quality feed that is primarily utilized during the open hunting seasons.
Mow it down real short in early July, then zap it good with round up and / or 2-4-D to kill all the weeds. As long as you don't overspray directly into the pond there is no reason for concern. You can do this with a simple garden pump sprayer.
After weed killer has done it's job, in late July or early Aug I'd try to till the soil before planting if you can get your hands on a disc or rotary tiller to put behind your tractor. Get it powdered up best you can to provide a good seed bed, then you can simply hand scatter the seed trying to be as uniform as possible. A bag or two of pelletized nitrogen scattered at the same time won't hurt anything either.
You could then drag something like an old set of bed springs over the planted area to smooth, level and assure good seed to soil contact, or smash it all down with a lawn roller if you don't have access to a cultipacker.
I'd be pretty surprised if this didn't get you a pretty nice crop of turnips. Deer will start working on them in mid October and use them well into winter.
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Post by esshup on Jan 20, 2018 0:09:18 GMT -5
The plot is very close to the pond and I would be playing with fire if I used Round-up because I understand it's deadly to fish. What happens is in a heavy rain there will be run-off across the plot and I'm positive that any fertilizer that is 'mobile' will find its way into the pond, thus accelerating the growth of filamentous algae. That really needs to be avoided since it negatively impacts fishing. How is the clover/rye seed distributed? Do I need some kind of mechanical spreader or is one of those things with a bag and hand crank sufficient? Also, does the clover/rye seed need to be incorporated into the soil or is it just left on the surface? Thanks for the help guys! I manage/stock ponds/treat aquatic weeds for a living. Roundup isn't deadly to fish at all. BUT, since it isn't labeled to be used in ponds, you have to be careful. It's not the active ingredient in Roundup, it's the other things in the mix that haven't been tested in water. That's the cause of the restriction. There are weed killers out there that have glyphosate in them that are labeled to use at the edge of the pond and in the pond. (AquaPro and Shore-Klear are the 2 that immediately come to mind) Personally, as long as it won't rain for 2-3 hours after you apply the Roundup (or generic equivalent) to the food plot, I wouldn't give it a second thought. Yes, you can use the hand crank rotary spreader for those seeds. |
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