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Post by bonecollector23 on Mar 8, 2017 7:39:20 GMT -5
9% of the hunters in the deer hunting contest killed 4 or more deer this year. I would say you are low on your percentage of hunters that use the bundle tag plus more each year. Most of you are being a little harsh toward these county committees. At least these groups are trying to improve habitat and review regulations in order to improve the health of our deer herd. I agree that some areas of the state need to remain in the reduction program but my county needs to cut back the quotas. We are allowed 8 does when the surrounding counties allow 4. I believe that they base these quotas off of the wrong variables (accidents, depredation tag applications, etc.) Something has to change. I am glad someone is trying to do something. It would be nice if more hunters would support the movement to help to promote a healthier deer herd rather than sit back and complain. I would say a hunting forum will "typically" have more successful hunters than the general population. You very well may be right in me being low, but I'd bet my bottom dollar the 9% represented here is overstating and not an example of the overall. Don't discuss the need of habitat enhancements...that is one of the very factors I used to bring up and they banned me from their pages. I have continually expressed my opinions to the DNR when asked and even when not asked. I've never felt my voice was unheard personally but that is not the case for some out there. My localized herds are doing okay if not well...go 2 miles West or even ask a guy I share a property with though and his opinion will be drastically different...doesn't disqualify either of us, just proves more than an opinion is needed to derive true figures or get a finger on the specific localized herd. Also I am not going to bring specifics up here as not the place, but this group has done/said things directly specifically at myself which were childish/unprofessional. I will not be able to defend or support a group which has done so. Funny thing is despite this I have befriended some of them, some of their past members in "leadership" and even let people know the group may very well represent everything they feel about the state of the deer in Indiana. CDAC's to me are a great concept, I also don't question anyone's love and desire for better deer hunting...but in the end unless a true unbias approach is taken at meetings, multiple entities are present on the boards and at minimum 50% of hunters have a presence it is tough to accept the voices of a few for the voices of an entire county. Personally I love the idea of them though, and if my time ever allows it is something which I'd love to emulate on a smaller scale just around my properties and their localized herds where area hunters meet, discuss and share thoughts on what the deer herd is looking like, maybe make decisions amongst ourselves as to goals, harvest ideas (obviously never exceeding legal limits) and such...but we are talking hunters in a 500-800 acre area not an entire county. In the end Bone, any hunter that feels their voice isn't being heard or there is not a way to express their concerns with the DNR should look into ways their voice can be heard. Not take my word for it or anyone else as to the proper channel for them. I've sent emails, answered surveys and partake in great discussions with hunters on forums, social media and through my consulting job as much as I can. I care deeply about the future of our herd, not just for myself selfishly but in the hopes to take my kids (Lord willing) out someday. In closing I would like to ask a question, your last line stated "It would be nice if more hunters would support the movement to help to promote a healthier deer herd rather than sit back and complain." What is your definition of healthier? Or a healthy deer herd? Is it possible the herd is healthy in areas but guys/gals/hunters simply wish they'd see more? (I 100% admit there is no doubt areas which could have lower quotas, just fyi) I am confused why people are only relating the CDAC's to bonus anterless quotas. Our CDAC is also using this opportunity to bring attention to special habitat improvement programs for the property owners and/or farmers. This will directly affect the health of the herd and the holding capacity of the property. We also are going to discuss predator control and age class management. Our meetings will be used to gather information from the community but also be educational. This might go against what some of the other CDAC groups are doing but we feel (as the hunters) that this is more important than only quotas. In the end, the hunter has control of how many animals are harvested on their property not the regulations. I am not going to sit here and tell you how many deer need to be on your property or how many you should harvest because only the owner, farmer, or hunter can determine this. I just feel that a quota of 8 does is just ridiculous. There are pockets of high numbers of deer in every county. That is why the 4 hunters from our county on the committee represent completely different areas across the whole county. As a hunter, I saw more deer last year than I had the last 2 combined. Yes I hunted a new property, but this property is less than a mile from where I used to hunt and they share a lot of the same deer. This property has a lot of CRP so the holding capacity is greater but there isn't much food there so when it got late in the season they all vanished to neighboring properties with food plots and large agricultural fields. This is why people get the wrong impression of how many deer are in the area. They all look after season when it is cold and the deer are piled in a select number of fields while other properties are almost abandoned. What I did notice about the herd is that there is a distinct age class missing. There has obviously been a year or 2 where EHD has hit this property hard. Disease and habitat (food, cover, etc.) are my biggest issues rather than quotas. Ultimately my surrounding properties control the amount of deer that are shot rather than shooting too many based on contests or quotas. By focusing on the 2 variables mentioned first we can have a healthier and in some areas a more numerous herd.
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Post by swilk on Mar 8, 2017 8:04:56 GMT -5
bonecollector23 - Which county is your CDAC representing? How many hunters hunt deer in that county each year? How many deer are there in the county? How many deer does the CDAC want in the county? How did the CDAC determine each of those numbers?
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Post by greghopper on Mar 8, 2017 8:06:25 GMT -5
I would say a hunting forum will "typically" have more successful hunters than the general population. You very well may be right in me being low, but I'd bet my bottom dollar the 9% represented here is overstating and not an example of the overall. Don't discuss the need of habitat enhancements...that is one of the very factors I used to bring up and they banned me from their pages. I have continually expressed my opinions to the DNR when asked and even when not asked. I've never felt my voice was unheard personally but that is not the case for some out there. My localized herds are doing okay if not well...go 2 miles West or even ask a guy I share a property with though and his opinion will be drastically different...doesn't disqualify either of us, just proves more than an opinion is needed to derive true figures or get a finger on the specific localized herd. Also I am not going to bring specifics up here as not the place, but this group has done/said things directly specifically at myself which were childish/unprofessional. I will not be able to defend or support a group which has done so. Funny thing is despite this I have befriended some of them, some of their past members in "leadership" and even let people know the group may very well represent everything they feel about the state of the deer in Indiana. CDAC's to me are a great concept, I also don't question anyone's love and desire for better deer hunting...but in the end unless a true unbias approach is taken at meetings, multiple entities are present on the boards and at minimum 50% of hunters have a presence it is tough to accept the voices of a few for the voices of an entire county. Personally I love the idea of them though, and if my time ever allows it is something which I'd love to emulate on a smaller scale just around my properties and their localized herds where area hunters meet, discuss and share thoughts on what the deer herd is looking like, maybe make decisions amongst ourselves as to goals, harvest ideas (obviously never exceeding legal limits) and such...but we are talking hunters in a 500-800 acre area not an entire county. In the end Bone, any hunter that feels their voice isn't being heard or there is not a way to express their concerns with the DNR should look into ways their voice can be heard. Not take my word for it or anyone else as to the proper channel for them. I've sent emails, answered surveys and partake in great discussions with hunters on forums, social media and through my consulting job as much as I can. I care deeply about the future of our herd, not just for myself selfishly but in the hopes to take my kids (Lord willing) out someday. In closing I would like to ask a question, your last line stated "It would be nice if more hunters would support the movement to help to promote a healthier deer herd rather than sit back and complain." What is your definition of healthier? Or a healthy deer herd? Is it possible the herd is healthy in areas but guys/gals/hunters simply wish they'd see more? (I 100% admit there is no doubt areas which could have lower quotas, just fyi) I am confused why people are only relating the CDAC's to bonus anterless quotas. Our CDAC is also using this opportunity to bring attention to special habitat improvement programs for the property owners and/or farmers. This will directly affect the health of the herd and the holding capacity of the property. We also are going to discuss predator control and age class management. Our meetings will be used to gather information from the community but also be educational. This might go against what some of the other CDAC groups are doing but we feel (as the hunters) that this is more important than only quotas. In the end, the hunter has control of how many animals are harvested on their property not the regulations. I am not going to sit here and tell you how many deer need to be on your property or how many you should harvest because only the owner, farmer, or hunter can determine this. I just feel that a quota of 8 does is just ridiculous. There are pockets of high numbers of deer in every county. That is why the 4 hunters from our county on the committee represent completely different areas across the whole county. As a hunter, I saw more deer last year than I had the last 2 combined. Yes I hunted a new property, but this property is less than a mile from where I used to hunt and they share a lot of the same deer. This property has a lot of CRP so the holding capacity is greater but there isn't much food there so when it got late in the season they all vanished to neighboring properties with food plots and large agricultural fields. This is why people get the wrong impression of how many deer are in the area. They all look after season when it is cold and the deer are piled in a select number of fields while other properties are almost abandoned. What I did notice about the herd is that there is a distinct age class missing. There has obviously been a year or 2 where EHD has hit this property hard. Disease and habitat (food, cover, etc.) are my biggest issues rather than quotas. Ultimately my surrounding properties control the amount of deer that are shot rather than shooting too many based on contests or quotas. By focusing on the 2 variables mentioned first we can have a healthier and in some areas a more numerous herd. How many people you think really shoot 8 Deer? Surely your not blinded by the facts or truth of this! How big of a Deer herd do think the state is going to allow? They hold the key to all this not the minority hunter/group!
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Post by jjas on Mar 8, 2017 8:12:59 GMT -5
bonecolletor23
If you were to go back and look over the majority of the posts from your group, you will see this has been a cornerstone of IWDHM's agenda.
I have less problem with what this group is trying to accomplish (to some extent) and more of an issue with the attitude and tactics of some of their leadership. IMO, some of these gentleman need to learn some leadership and people skills. Being "in your face" may make people think they are accomplishing something, but in the long run it will turn people away, not towards your group.
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Post by greghopper on Mar 8, 2017 8:13:04 GMT -5
bonecollector23 - Which county is your CDAC representing? How many hunters hunt deer in that county each year? How many deer are there in the county? How many deer does the CDAC want in the county? How did the CDAC determine each of those numbers? BINGO....yes please do tell! bonecollector23...deerturkeyman...kp44
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Post by tynimiller on Mar 8, 2017 8:24:26 GMT -5
I would say a hunting forum will "typically" have more successful hunters than the general population. You very well may be right in me being low, but I'd bet my bottom dollar the 9% represented here is overstating and not an example of the overall. Don't discuss the need of habitat enhancements...that is one of the very factors I used to bring up and they banned me from their pages. I have continually expressed my opinions to the DNR when asked and even when not asked. I've never felt my voice was unheard personally but that is not the case for some out there. My localized herds are doing okay if not well...go 2 miles West or even ask a guy I share a property with though and his opinion will be drastically different...doesn't disqualify either of us, just proves more than an opinion is needed to derive true figures or get a finger on the specific localized herd. Also I am not going to bring specifics up here as not the place, but this group has done/said things directly specifically at myself which were childish/unprofessional. I will not be able to defend or support a group which has done so. Funny thing is despite this I have befriended some of them, some of their past members in "leadership" and even let people know the group may very well represent everything they feel about the state of the deer in Indiana. CDAC's to me are a great concept, I also don't question anyone's love and desire for better deer hunting...but in the end unless a true unbias approach is taken at meetings, multiple entities are present on the boards and at minimum 50% of hunters have a presence it is tough to accept the voices of a few for the voices of an entire county. Personally I love the idea of them though, and if my time ever allows it is something which I'd love to emulate on a smaller scale just around my properties and their localized herds where area hunters meet, discuss and share thoughts on what the deer herd is looking like, maybe make decisions amongst ourselves as to goals, harvest ideas (obviously never exceeding legal limits) and such...but we are talking hunters in a 500-800 acre area not an entire county. In the end Bone, any hunter that feels their voice isn't being heard or there is not a way to express their concerns with the DNR should look into ways their voice can be heard. Not take my word for it or anyone else as to the proper channel for them. I've sent emails, answered surveys and partake in great discussions with hunters on forums, social media and through my consulting job as much as I can. I care deeply about the future of our herd, not just for myself selfishly but in the hopes to take my kids (Lord willing) out someday. In closing I would like to ask a question, your last line stated "It would be nice if more hunters would support the movement to help to promote a healthier deer herd rather than sit back and complain." What is your definition of healthier? Or a healthy deer herd? Is it possible the herd is healthy in areas but guys/gals/hunters simply wish they'd see more? (I 100% admit there is no doubt areas which could have lower quotas, just fyi) I am confused why people are only relating the CDAC's to bonus anterless quotas. Our CDAC is also using this opportunity to bring attention to special habitat improvement programs for the property owners and/or farmers. This will directly affect the health of the herd and the holding capacity of the property. We also are going to discuss predator control and age class management. Our meetings will be used to gather information from the community but also be educational. This might go against what some of the other CDAC groups are doing but we feel (as the hunters) that this is more important than only quotas. In the end, the hunter has control of how many animals are harvested on their property not the regulations. I am not going to sit here and tell you how many deer need to be on your property or how many you should harvest because only the owner, farmer, or hunter can determine this. I just feel that a quota of 8 does is just ridiculous. There are pockets of high numbers of deer in every county. That is why the 4 hunters from our county on the committee represent completely different areas across the whole county. As a hunter, I saw more deer last year than I had the last 2 combined. Yes I hunted a new property, but this property is less than a mile from where I used to hunt and they share a lot of the same deer. This property has a lot of CRP so the holding capacity is greater but there isn't much food there so when it got late in the season they all vanished to neighboring properties with food plots and large agricultural fields. This is why people get the wrong impression of how many deer are in the area. They all look after season when it is cold and the deer are piled in a select number of fields while other properties are almost abandoned. What I did notice about the herd is that there is a distinct age class missing. There has obviously been a year or 2 where EHD has hit this property hard. Disease and habitat (food, cover, etc.) are my biggest issues rather than quotas. Ultimately my surrounding properties control the amount of deer that are shot rather than shooting too many based on contests or quotas. By focusing on the 2 variables mentioned first we can have a healthier and in some areas a more numerous herd. Now if your CDAC is lined with your thoughts of importance and factors to the herd that is awesome and contradicts many thoughts of others. Awesome. Also granted quoting an old (2010 or 2011 if memory serves) stat but somewhere between 2 and 4 % actually harvest over 4 deer. (5 or more)
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kp44
New Member
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Post by kp44 on Mar 8, 2017 8:33:55 GMT -5
bonecollector23 - Which county is your CDAC representing? How many hunters hunt deer in that county each year? How many deer are there in the county? How many deer does the CDAC want in the county? How did the CDAC determine each of those numbers? BINGO....yes please do tell! bonecollector23...deerturkeyman...kp44
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Post by tynimiller on Mar 8, 2017 8:35:58 GMT -5
BINGO....yes please do tell! bonecollector23...deerturkeyman...kp44 Kp i think you miss typed no text included.
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Post by Woody Williams on Mar 8, 2017 8:45:20 GMT -5
Healthy discussion but all please remember to keep it civil..and please watch the piling on...
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kp44
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Post by kp44 on Mar 8, 2017 8:47:20 GMT -5
Kp i think you miss typed no text included. The best way to get these questions answered is to show up to a meeting. Its open to the public and they public can express their concerns and ask questions. This is another way for public input...not sure why people are against it since everybody keeps saying to express your concerns.
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Post by greghopper on Mar 8, 2017 8:53:53 GMT -5
So in other words you don't have the answers.... go figure!
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Post by swilk on Mar 8, 2017 8:57:44 GMT -5
So, the answers to the questions are known but will only be revealed at a meeting? Are there any specific questions that can be answered without being there in person?
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Post by tynimiller on Mar 8, 2017 9:00:19 GMT -5
Kp PM if you want but I know the question I asked of you earlier is not a big deal to answer, or atleast not in my eyes.
Also I personally wouldn't go to a county meeting that I do not have a invested hunting interest in (which is primarily only 2 counties).
Dialogue is avoided far too often, civil discussions of even opposing thoughts (which I'm not even sure atleast we are) is a great thing.
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Post by Woody Williams on Mar 8, 2017 9:26:08 GMT -5
So in other words you don't have the answers.... go figure! Talk about the subject not each other.
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kp44
New Member
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Post by kp44 on Mar 8, 2017 9:27:21 GMT -5
So in other words you don't have the answers.... go figure! Does the DNR even have the numbers of deer in each county and number of hunters who hunt a specific county?
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Post by tynimiller on Mar 8, 2017 9:34:17 GMT -5
So in other words you don't have the answers.... go figure! Does the DNR even have the numbers of deer in each county and number of hunters who hunt a specific county? Number of deer would only be an estimate if a number ever claimed...but I would bet DNR at minimum knows licensed hunters in each county each year if they choose to track such. Although lifetime holders would not be known currently as might have moved...also wouldn't account for someone like me that lives in one county but does majority of hunting in neighboring county. It is a figure I would love to know because like discussed earlier just using rough estimate of total reported licenses sold divided by 92 counties points towards an incredible number of hunters distributed out. Obviously density would mean it isn't equally distributed as such but does point towards a significant number.
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Post by swilk on Mar 8, 2017 10:00:54 GMT -5
A simple "I dont know" would have sufficed and been an honest answer.
I used to really enjoy this game but anymore it just bores me ....
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Post by greghopper on Mar 8, 2017 10:09:19 GMT -5
So in other words you don't have the answers.... go figure! Does the DNR even have the numbers of deer in each county and number of hunters who hunt a specific county? Not sure.... IWDHM claimed the DNR didn't and claimed that CDAC could do what the DNR couldn't and count the Deer herd in every county! BTW... The DNR has a system in place that allows folks to give input and ask questions without traveling to any meetings!
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Post by bonecollector23 on Mar 8, 2017 10:55:08 GMT -5
I am confused why people are only relating the CDAC's to bonus anterless quotas. Our CDAC is also using this opportunity to bring attention to special habitat improvement programs for the property owners and/or farmers. This will directly affect the health of the herd and the holding capacity of the property. We also are going to discuss predator control and age class management. Our meetings will be used to gather information from the community but also be educational. This might go against what some of the other CDAC groups are doing but we feel (as the hunters) that this is more important than only quotas. In the end, the hunter has control of how many animals are harvested on their property not the regulations. I am not going to sit here and tell you how many deer need to be on your property or how many you should harvest because only the owner, farmer, or hunter can determine this. I just feel that a quota of 8 does is just ridiculous. There are pockets of high numbers of deer in every county. That is why the 4 hunters from our county on the committee represent completely different areas across the whole county. As a hunter, I saw more deer last year than I had the last 2 combined. Yes I hunted a new property, but this property is less than a mile from where I used to hunt and they share a lot of the same deer. This property has a lot of CRP so the holding capacity is greater but there isn't much food there so when it got late in the season they all vanished to neighboring properties with food plots and large agricultural fields. This is why people get the wrong impression of how many deer are in the area. They all look after season when it is cold and the deer are piled in a select number of fields while other properties are almost abandoned. What I did notice about the herd is that there is a distinct age class missing. There has obviously been a year or 2 where EHD has hit this property hard. Disease and habitat (food, cover, etc.) are my biggest issues rather than quotas. Ultimately my surrounding properties control the amount of deer that are shot rather than shooting too many based on contests or quotas. By focusing on the 2 variables mentioned first we can have a healthier and in some areas a more numerous herd. How many people you think really shoot 8 Deer? Surely your not blinded by the facts or truth of this! How big of a Deer herd do think the state is going to allow? They hold the key to all this not the minority hunter/group! That is false. The minority hunter/group does hold the key. The State can say whatever they want but they aren't the ones pulling the trigger. It is all about raising awareness, habitat education, and managing age structure. It is ultimately up to the hunter. Just because someone tells you that you can jump off of a bridge doesn't mean to do it. The reason for wanting to lower the quota is due to the people that will jump and not think about their actions first.
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Post by bonecollector23 on Mar 8, 2017 11:11:17 GMT -5
bonecollector23 - Which county is your CDAC representing? How many hunters hunt deer in that county each year? How many deer are there in the county? How many deer does the CDAC want in the county? How did the CDAC determine each of those numbers? BINGO....yes please do tell! bonecollector23...deerturkeyman...kp44 I am from Fountain County. As your question about hunters in the county and deer in the county, I don't know! Do you know? Does the DNR know? I don't think so!! Everything is an estimation. Would you rather that estimation come from a source directly involved or from a source that is gathering information based on a small resource group and that are not actually in the field? Just like in manufacturing or any other business, who's opinion is more important in improvement activities? The upper management that sits in an office or the actual person doing the process? I would say the worker would know best. Regarding your last 2 questions, there is no magic number. That is what the meetings are for. Ask questions to the general public. Deer sightings, habitat questions, signs of too many deer, signs of an opportunity for increased capacity. No one person can sit down and give these answers accurately without hunter involvement. All I want is for hunters to get involved and manage their properties for numbers that make sense for each individual property. It needs to be educational while still listening to the people for recommendations.
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