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Post by steiny on Sept 20, 2016 9:45:53 GMT -5
Spent the weekend at deer camp with a few friends, a couple of which are city boys that I hunt with. Always amazes me that they will go to all of the time and trouble to buy licenses, travel places, pay for hunting trips, buy weapons, buy gear, etc. but won't put in the time and effort to become familiar with their weapons, get them sighted in and know where they hit at different yardages.
Typical deal, one dude hunts with crossbow. Said he can only shoot 20 yards in his yard in town but he is good to go as he has it sighted in and according to the book you sight in top pin at 20 yards, then next two pins are for 30 & 40 yards.
As suspected, that was off base. We set a target at a measured 20 yards and quickly found he was 3-4" left, and got that fixed. Then via moving around at some measured distances found out that his second pin was good at 25 yards and third pin good at 30 yards. Made him up a sticker to put on the crossbow illustrating that information and hope it helps.
After discussion we come to find out that he didn't know how much his practice tips weigh, nor does he know how much his broadheads weigh, so our sight in efforts could be wasted effort? See the same stuff with firearms. Sight in with brand X ammo, then can't find anymore in the store and hunt with brand Y.
I'm trying to be patient and train these guys. Also makes me suspect that the majority of dudes hitting the woods have little if any idea what their weapons are doing. This is the one aspect of deer hunting that is pretty controllable, so really not much excuse for hitting the woods with an inaccurate weapon. We experienced guys should try to teach this stuff. Wounded and lost game is pretty disheartening and can be bad for our image as hunters.
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Post by urbanguy on Sept 20, 2016 10:51:49 GMT -5
I agree with you. I do not think that Barnett has the best quality out there but they were the most affordable to "new" shooters and I truly believe that some of their quality issues were due to new shooters in your example. They buy it and don't realize the odd color fletching needs to be down for the half moon nock, fire and string breaks. I am not tooting my own horn here but I shot in the dark last night with lights to make sure my bow was on target and I wont hunt until I know my gear is working properly and accurate. You are 100% right and i know it is frustrating but I'm glad your taking the time to teach and instruct. You may help avoid a wounded deer.
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Post by dbd870 on Sept 20, 2016 11:21:30 GMT -5
No doubt there are way too many.
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Post by Ahawkeye on Sept 20, 2016 13:34:46 GMT -5
I've seen the same thing, not as much in my hunting circle but I hunt public land so I see A LOT of stuff you just shake your head at. I was walking back to the truck one evening after a deer hunt and saw a flashlight coming through the woods towards the trail. We met up at about the same place and softly chatted on the way out. He was in his mid-20s or so and told me he shot at a monster but missed I said well it happens to the best of us. He then tells me he knew his gun was two feet off at 20 yards. I tried really hard not to ask why he was out there if he knew his gun was shooting so badly but he seemed to enjoy the conversation. Another time I drove up to a parking area for an evening hunt and another young man introduced himself, we talked for a bit while I got my gear ready he said he knew all there was to know about the property and that it went on for about 2 miles north of where we were. I said did the state buy that strip that was separating this tract from the next? I thought it was still private? He said oh that part? As he looked at the map, I didn't really think anyone would mind if anyone hunted there it's just a field and some woods and it's just a small area. I told him he should watch those property lines they'll get you in trouble pretty quick. He kind of chuckled and brushed it off. I've got a ton of them really I just can't remember them all. My biggest worry about bringing a young hunter along is not what they will do but what others might do. It's scary out there sometimes.
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Post by ukwil on Sept 20, 2016 14:54:15 GMT -5
Got an 18 year old cousin who thinks all he needs to do is whatever the "pros" on the shows do. Won't experiment with his weapons at all. Perfect example was during the bonus season last year. He had gotten one of those prepackaged muzzle loader deals and took it hunting. He had some does come in and wound up killing one at about 90 yards on the second shot after whiffing on the first. He then proceeds to brag about how good of a shot he was, so I asked him how long it took him to sight it in. When he told me that those were his first 2 shots I gave him a good butt chewing. Doubt it helped any, but now he knows what he should do.
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Post by steiny on Sept 20, 2016 15:28:29 GMT -5
Good example ukwill !
If you go by the book on those fancy muzzle loaders with the long distance reticle scopes, you load them with 150 grains of pellets, stuff a saboted bullet down them and you are good to go. first crosshair is dead on at 100 yards, next at 150, next at 200, etc., etc.
Problem is, little things can throw this way off; such as how you position your scope on the gun, what charge and what brand powder you use, what brand and weight of bullet, etc. You may be nowhere near where the book says you should be, and the only way to truly get a muzzle loader dialed in is time at the bench, shooting off of a good rest and cleaning the rifle thoroughly between each and every shot.
My experience is that none of those muzzle loaders shoot as accurately nor as far as advertised.
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Post by ms660 on Sept 20, 2016 15:41:23 GMT -5
My Dad had an archery shop for 25 years. You would be amazed at how many guys would buy a new bow and sight and after he got it all set up and ready for them, they would then ask him to sight it in for them. He would then have to explain why that would not work and then take them outside and help them get sighted in.
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Post by laughery11 on Sept 20, 2016 18:35:45 GMT -5
I completely agree with the statements above but, I think you're going to see even more of this with the new rifle season. I primarily hunt in South Carolina where 90% of hunting is done with a rifle. Every year I hear at least one hunter state that they sighted there rifle in 2 inches high at 100 yards and they can't believe they missed a deer at 250 yards. They say, "the box of ammunition told me I could shoot out to 400 yards all I had to do was holdover 2 feet". These are also commonly the same people who say,"Dick's boresighted my rifle for free why would I waste ammunition at the range". Perceived accuracy has led to a lot of missed and unrecovered deer. If you don't practice at distances and in situations (rests, positions, clothing, etc.) you plan to hunt in you are just asking for trouble.
When I first started deer hunting everyone I hunted with used a slug gun. Everyone knew that you had to get deer within 100 yards to get a good chance at a clean kill. This usually to some level of planning and woodsmanship. Now I hear people in both s.c. and Indiana say that they can go out on opening day and sit over any cut cornfield and kill a deer. This may be true but, I feel I owe it to the deer and my conscience to be well practiced with whatever weapon I'm using.
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Post by beermaker on Sept 20, 2016 19:26:03 GMT -5
I have a friend that bow hunts OFTEN, but practices NEVER. Coincidentally, he has never killed a deer with archery equipment. Every year he either whiffs or injures one, or both. The same guy turns his nose up at me for trading in my compound for a crossbow. Why did I do that? Because I do not have the time to practice that I feel is necessary to be proficient in the woods. Before kids and a less-demanding job ago, I shot my compound nearly every day starting August first. I would shoot at different angles, from the deck, unknown yardages, and even put up a ladder stand in the back yard. I no longer have the time to do that.
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Post by gilder on Sept 20, 2016 19:32:37 GMT -5
I don't understand what the problem is, just help your friends.
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Post by urbanguy on Sept 20, 2016 19:55:10 GMT -5
Right there with you Beermaker!
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Post by beermanbrian on Sept 21, 2016 9:14:00 GMT -5
Every piece of knowledge comes from experience and or learning from someone with experience. I'm 37 and started bow hunting when I was 23. I hunted with my father growing up but he wasn't a bow Hunter. I pretty much had to self teach and ask questions of guys more experienced.
I'm not knocking anyone but next you come across a teaching moment , remember that it is just that. You never know what kind of impact your knowledge will have on someone. Taking an hour to help an inexperienced hunter will probably go a long way.
Unfortunately many 20 something's don't grow up hunting anymore. They just might need a little guidance along the way. The people interested in hunting , the better it will be for us all.
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Post by jackryan on Sept 21, 2016 10:24:24 GMT -5
ALL "those guys" decided we need 30-06 rifles to hunt deer in Indiana. That's the only thing holding them back.
That and a pile of corn and they'll be experts.
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Post by oldhoyt on Sept 21, 2016 10:52:42 GMT -5
Not to change the subject (too much anyway), there's a big difference between "need" and "no good reason we shouldn't be able to use".
When the rules were originally adopted, the State limited allowed firearms to shotguns because they were basically apologizing their way in to establishing a deer season. The State said they were trying to make the hunting experience intimate (perhaps the wrong word) and enjoyable, so went with shotguns because they were medium range weapons at best at the time. Hunters needed to get the game in relatively close.
Shotguns and muzzleloaders have now evolved to the point that it really makes no difference what style of gun is used. So, the limitation to medium range is out the window, and there's no longer a real reason not to allow CF rifles. I'm not crazy about the way the new law came to be, but it does allow use of a good range of typical deer cartridges. I'm guessing it won't be all that long until a minimum caliber/cartridge is set, and the rest are legal.
Nobody needs a 30/06. Heck, nobody needs to hunt deer.
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Post by trapperdave on Sept 21, 2016 11:46:25 GMT -5
Spent the weekend at deer camp with a few friends, a couple of which are city boys that I hunt with. Always amazes me that they will go to all of the time and trouble to buy licenses, travel places, pay for hunting trips, buy weapons, buy gear, etc. but won't put in the time and effort to become familiar with their weapons, get them sighted in and know where they hit at different yardages. Typical deal, one dude hunts with crossbow. Said he can only shoot 20 yards in his yard in town but he is good to go as he has it sighted in and according to the book you sight in top pin at 20 yards, then next two pins are for 30 & 40 yards. As suspected, that was off base. We set a target at a measured 20 yards and quickly found he was 3-4" left, and got that fixed. Then via moving around at some measured distances found out that his second pin was good at 25 yards and third pin good at 30 yards. Made him up a sticker to put on the crossbow illustrating that information and hope it helps. After discussion we come to find out that he didn't know how much his practice tips weigh, nor does he know how much his broadheads weigh, so our sight in efforts could be wasted effort? See the same stuff with firearms. Sight in with brand X ammo, then can't find anymore in the store and hunt with brand Y. I'm trying to be patient and train these guys. Also makes me suspect that the majority of dudes hitting the woods have little if any idea what their weapons are doing. This is the one aspect of deer hunting that is pretty controllable, so really not much excuse for hitting the woods with an inaccurate weapon. We experienced guys should try to teach this stuff. Wounded and lost game is pretty disheartening and can be bad for our image as hunters. Crossbow needs three pins for 20-30 yds? My last compound used one for all three. |
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Post by esshup on Sept 21, 2016 12:25:20 GMT -5
Crossbow needs three pins for 20-30 yds? My last compound used one for all three. Oh my God, you have one of those vertical bows that should be outlawed because they shoot so fast!! It's not a stick and a string!!! LOL  Regarding the crossbow, I think it depends on the weight of the arrow and how fast it's going. I need a pin on my Barnett Revolution for every 10 yd increment. steiny, I agree with you. It doesn't matter what weapon is used, if people don't practice then how do they expect to be proficient with it? I have a client that keeps bugging me to come out to Colorado to archery hunt Elk on his property during the rut. He said 95% of the shots would be 20 yds or less, and he shot one where he wasn't sure the fletching cleared the riser before the broadhead hit the elk. I told him that even at that distance, I don't have the time to practice enough with a compound bow to feel confident with it. (and also practice with all the other things that I shoot) Lots of guys don't realize how important muscle memory is when it comes to shooting and hunting. Unless you practice a lot and practice good form, when it comes time to shoot during a hunting situation you might not have time to mentally go through your check list before it's time to shoot like you can on a range. |
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Post by trapperdave on Sept 21, 2016 12:34:16 GMT -5
Lol...HAD  |
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Post by steiny on Sept 21, 2016 12:46:08 GMT -5
Shotguns and muzzleloaders have now evolved to the point that it really makes no difference what style of gun is used. So, the limitation to medium range is out the window, and there's no longer a real reason not to allow CF rifles.  ? Guess I missed the boat with the dozen or so slug guns and muzzle loaders I've owned over the last 30+ years because I've yet to see one that will rival the accuracy or flat trajectory of my .300 mag. |
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Post by oldhoyt on Sept 21, 2016 15:21:56 GMT -5
There are exceptions to just about every rule, but like most hunters out there, I'm not a long range shooter. To me, long range is anything past maximum point blank range. For a 30/06, this is about 225-50 yds or so. Perhaps a little longer for a 300 Magnum. If you look, you'll see plenty of MLs and shotguns that are touted to be 200 yd guns.
Even with my 358 Hoosier, I won't shoot past 150. I rarely have the opportunity to see a deer that far away while hunting, let alone get a clear shot at it. I know some folks hunt where that is not unusual. But for the average guy, even 150 yds is longer than average and for shooting deer there are plenty of MLs and shotguns that will perform to the task. So, that's what I meant when I said it really makes no difference. The effective range of MLs and shotguns has about doubled since the first IN firearms deer season.
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Post by trapperdave on Sept 22, 2016 23:26:38 GMT -5
Where I hunt you can't see more than about fifty yards |
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