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Post by greghopper on Jan 12, 2016 18:24:22 GMT -5
Supporters of legislation that would regulate Indiana’s high-fenced deer hunting say the recent resolution of a decade-long court battle – negating any state authority over the industry – will give them traction this session. The measure is expected to finally pass after years of legislative inaction. Rodney Bruce is an owner of one of Indiana’s high-fenced deer hunting preserves, where people can pay money to hunt farm-raised deer in an enclosed area. The state court system ultimately decided last year that Indiana has no authority under current law to regulate facilities like Bruce’s. He says that makes this year’s legislation critical. “We’re out of options and it’s time to put this to bed,” Bruce says. “And I think everybody that has a dog in this fight has contributed to this resolution.” The bill would allow an unlimited number of preserves, all under the authority of the Board of Animal Health. It requires new reserves to be at least 100 acres, fences to be at least eight-feet high, and mandates reporting of disease and escape. Groups including the Humane Society and the Hoosier Environmental Council say the regulations aren’t strict enough. But sportsmen’s groups, such as the Indiana Deer Hunter’s Association, oppose the preserves entirely. Association representative Doug Allman calls them an “affront” to Indiana’s hunting culture, which he says is about fair chase. “Don’t call it hunting,” Allman says. “That’s like a guy that hires a prostitute and says ‘This is true love.’” A Senate committee approved the bill 8-1, with a Democrat the lone dissenting vote. indianapublicmedia.org/news/deer-hunting-bill-clears-senate-committee-92109/
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Post by drs on Jan 13, 2016 5:52:13 GMT -5
Goodbye to true sport Deer Hunting in Indiana. Hello to a number of diseases that will eventually wipe-out your Deer Herd; not to mention Hunters paying a high premium price for hunting. <VERY UNWISE>
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Post by hunterman on Jan 13, 2016 9:52:06 GMT -5
Great step for protecting Sportsmen, Hunting and the Hunting heritage. This does not mean you have to participate in this form of hunting, its a choice like everything else. To try and end segments of hunting because you don't like it or cant afford is no different than voting to end ownership of pistols and AR's and still claiming to be supportive of 2nd amendment. This bill covers everyone's concern, if there is anyone left on the cwd scare bandwagon its only because they refuse to believe the facts and become educated. There is no argument left, the highest courts have ruled, every group affected by this (including sportsmen and DNR) have weighed in and everyone is in agreement, finish this once and for all. Win win for everyone !!!! There is always a couple percent on both sides that will complain no matter what, the few radicals on each side cancel each other out and the majority prevails and that is where this is now.
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Post by drs on Jan 13, 2016 11:21:02 GMT -5
Great step for protecting Sportsmen, Hunting and the Hunting heritage. This does not mean you have to participate in this form of hunting, its a choice like everything else. To try and end segments of hunting because you don't like it or cant afford is no different than voting to end ownership of pistols and AR's and still claiming to be supportive of 2nd amendment. This bill covers everyone's concern, if there is anyone left on the cwd scare bandwagon its only because they refuse to believe the facts and become educated. There is no argument left, the highest courts have ruled, every group affected by this (including sportsmen and DNR) have weighed in and everyone is in agreement, finish this once and for all. Win win for everyone !!!! There is always a couple percent on both sides that will complain no matter what, the few radicals on each side cancel each other out and the majority prevails and that is where this is now. How many Wildlife Biologist are members of the court?? This bill will only destroy Deer Hunting as we once knew it. Glad I no longer live in Indiana.
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Post by hunterman on Jan 13, 2016 11:30:33 GMT -5
The courts determine legality. The State Board of Animal Health and Biologist handle animal health issues, that's why its supported by them as well. If you are a supporter of no rules and anyone can do as they wish then this bill will destroy hunting as you know it. If you are a law biding citizen and ethical sportsmen then this aw will protect hunting as you know it. Again, Its all about the majority and the majority want to have rules and regulations in place to protect all interest.
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Post by throbak on Jan 13, 2016 11:55:42 GMT -5
You sound like a deer farmer ,Not buying it For one its not hunting And it's not a option for legitimate Sportsmen and Hunters We don't need this in Indiana There is not a conservation group in the state that condones it , There is where my allegiance goes.
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Post by dbd870 on Jan 13, 2016 12:07:00 GMT -5
Let's keep to arguing the specific's and not get personal. I really don't want to lock another one.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 13, 2016 12:32:25 GMT -5
I say let BOH take charge of the farm rised Deer then they can determine what humane slaughter is for these animals as they have done with other farm animals!!
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Post by greghopper on Jan 13, 2016 12:37:21 GMT -5
You sound like a deer farmer ,Not buying it For one its not hunting And it's not a option for legitimate Sportsmen and Hunters We don't need this in Indiana There is not a conservation group in the state that condones it , There is where my allegiance goes. ..... One group that condones it now that MAYBE a conservation group is IWDHM...
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Post by esshup on Jan 13, 2016 12:40:30 GMT -5
I can see both sides of the discussion, the health concerns and the ability to "farm" deer like cattle.
Personally? I think the confinement regulation is a little lax, I'd like to see a higher fence - 12' tall and make it a double fence, "X" feet apart. Is the fence expensive? Yes. Are whitetails worth more than cattle? Yes. So, the $$ will be there to build the correct fence.
Yes, the possibility of disease affecting the wild herd is there, and I'm sure we will see more outbreaks in the wild herd, but Colorado has been dealing with it for 30+ years and it hasn't wiped out the wild herd. Make it a requirement that any cervid brought into the state be tattooed with an identifying number AND be ear tagged before entering the state. Same with the fawns born in captivity, tattooed within 1 month of being born, and tagged when their age allows it. Ear tags are easy to remove, tattoos not so much....
Require permanently marking the horns of any harvested animal so they can't be entered into any record book in the future.
That type of hunting isn't for me, but neither is trophy hunting in general. With all the attacks that us as hunters and shooters are getting today, we can't be fighting among ourselves.
I'd also like to see a legal requirement to have it called a "shooting" preserve or club or whatever vs. a "hunting" preserve, club or whatever.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 15, 2016 16:37:41 GMT -5
My thoughts....
I do not believe that deer should be sold to the highest bidder. It is my opinion that the commercialization of wildlife will doom the sport of hunting. Therefore I am opposed to any cervid farming for the purpose of selling the animal to be shot on any fenced facility for sport.
I do not have a problem with cervids being farmed for the expressed purpose of meat, velvet, antlers, urine or semen.
Hunting already has a rough row to hoe fighting off the ant-hunters and trying to recruit more hunters. We do not need anything that casts a bad light on hunting.
There is no doubt in my mind that ANY penned “hunting”, canned or otherwise, will be used by the anti-hunters as further proof that we hunters care about nothing but killing. Of course nothing could be further from the truth. But, that will be ammunition for them.
IF they are allowed to keep up their “deer farming/shooting” then I think strong and enforced regulations should be in place.
My recommendations are:
Size of facility:
1) Nothing less than 200 acres should be considered for a “shooting preserve”. Of that amount, half should be adequate cover for the deer’s escape. 2) No “grand fathering” in of existing smaller facilities for “shooting preserves”. 3) Deer farming for meat, velvet, urine or semen can be any size within the realms of humane treatment of the animals.
Fencing
1) All fences around ANY deer farm or shooting preserve should be 10 foot tall. Deer can easily clear an 8 foot fence. 2) Because of the possibilities of disease spread back and forth between the fence with native whitetails ALL deer farm or shooting preserves should be double fenced with 10 foot fences. A friend of mine had a captive herd and was constantly repairing the fence because his bucks would fight through the fence with wild bucks. He had lost several deer through a hole that was created by this fighting. A double fence would lessen the possibility of escape and/or disease spread.. 3) A single fence can be compromised by fallen trees or large tree limbs.
Diseases
1) A major subject for debate has been whether or not these type facilities further the spread of diseases such as CWD and Bovine TB. I would want all deer within these facilities to be checked for CWD and Bovine TB at their slaughter. As soon as a reliable live test is made available ALL deer within the facility should be tested and those records made available to the pertinent authorities.
2) The tax payers of Indiana (both sportsmen and general public) are not responsible for ANY indemnification (State funds/taxes/IDNR will not be responsible for any costs when a facility loses deer due to disease check or eradication if TB or CWD is found) . Preserve and deer farmers need to insure their deer herds as well as post a bond for any damages/costs the state of Indiana might incur.
Jurisdiction
1) Since the whitetail deer is most commonly known as a wild animal in the state of Indiana and a dead whitetail in the back of a truck could very well come from the wild or a “shooting preserve” I would request that jurisdiction over these facilities be under the jurisdiction of the Indiana Department of Natural Resources. 2) All present game regulations, required licenses and seasons would have to be adhered to. 3) As with any other properties that are deer hunted, the deer farms would be subject to unannounced visitation by the IDNR.
Advertising
1) If “shooting preserves” are allowed I would like to request that they NOT be allowed to advertise their services as “hunting”. As stated previously hunting is going to be taking a hit on these type of operations. They may call it shooting, slaughter, harvest or anything they want as long as the words “hunt” or “hunting” are not included in the wording.
Record Keeping
1) All animals that are on the facility should be identified with an electronic chip, tattoo or ear tag as to what/which animal they are. 2) All animals that are received and taken out of the facility (dead or alive) need to be recorded along with any pertinent information such as diseases, etc. 3) All bucks antlers need to be plugged with an identifying plug so as the trophy record keeping organizations can differentiate them from wild deer.
Ownership
When a “preserve” owner retires or dies so does the preserve, no sale or transfer of the shooting preserve.
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Post by hunterman on Jan 16, 2016 9:47:17 GMT -5
If we use some logic offered i think any suggestion made for the preserves should be made for free range to. For example, hunters should have to pay to have every deer they kill tested for cwd. Hunters can not hunt in a woods less than 200 acres. There should be no leasing cause it it puts money into the equation. No hunting the high fence government ground and refugees.
The point here is to show how rediculous some of the proposals are. Some times you can only realize it when it affects your particular way of hunting.
Hunting preserves are not for everyone. However they are a very important part of the hunting world and in the not so distant future they will be what saves hunting and the hunting heritage and allows a place for people to hunt.
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Post by throbak on Jan 16, 2016 10:21:49 GMT -5
AGAIN ITS NOT HUNTING its KILLING !!!!!!
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 16, 2016 11:10:34 GMT -5
If we use some logic offered i think any suggestion made for the preserves should be made for free range to. For example, hunters should have to pay to have every deer they kill tested for cwd. Hmm.. does the hunter make money off the free range deer that they have killed?Hunters can not hunt in a woods less than 200 acres. Free range means just that. The deer are not confined and can go anywhere from the Ohio River to the Michigan border and beyond...No high fences in the way.There should be no leasing cause it it puts money into the equation. ?? No hunting the high fence government ground and refugees. Can you tell which "high fence government ground" or "refuge" that has less than 200 acres?The point here is to show how rediculous some of the proposals are. Some times you can only realize it when it affects your particular way of hunting. Hunting preserves are not for everyone. However they are a very important part of the hunting world and in the not so distant future they will be what saves hunting and the hunting heritage and allows a place for people to hunt. Lord help us if it comes down to the only place we can "hunt" is a fenced in shooting preserve, but some would really like that as they would have a big money monopoly, wouldn't they?..................
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Post by drs on Jan 16, 2016 11:47:49 GMT -5
If we use some logic offered i think any suggestion made for the preserves should be made for free range to. For example, hunters should have to pay to have every deer they kill tested for cwd. Hunters can not hunt in a woods less than 200 acres. There should be no leasing cause it it puts money into the equation. No hunting the high fence government ground and refugees. The point here is to show how rediculous some of the proposals are. Some times you can only realize it when it affects your particular way of hunting. Hunting preserves are not for everyone. However they are a very important part of the hunting world and in the not so distant future they will be what saves hunting and the hunting heritage and allows a place for people to hunt. The highlighted part is correct!! Going a bit further, Hunting Preserves, like the type you support, aren't for anyone. Hunting should be left as a "SPORT" not a business venture.
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Post by GS1 on Jan 16, 2016 11:59:44 GMT -5
Hunting preserves are not for everyone. However they are a very important part of the hunting world and in the not so distant future they will be what saves hunting and the hunting heritage and allows a place for people to hunt. How are they important? What part of the actual hunting world could not survive today without pens to kill deer in? What exactly are they going to "save" hunting from?
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Post by throbak on Jan 16, 2016 13:26:40 GMT -5
Hunter man thinks like I have heard before With Catfish When all the Fish are gone from the Rivers from Overharvest we will have to come to Pay lakes ... With Deer its When all the deer are gone from Over harvest and disease We will have to use their Preserves and canned hunts they think in their warped minded try are doing us a favor SMH
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Post by hunterman on Jan 16, 2016 17:19:32 GMT -5
It ALL comes down to jealousy, someone may kill a bigger buck than you so you gotta try stop them. A guy offered a free preserve hunt at the Indy hunting show last year and a guy was also there with a petition to shut preserves down. The guy giving the hunt away had OVER 1000 (one thousand) signatures to every 1 (one) signature on the petition to ban. That is why hunting preserves are here to stay. If the preserves affected your way of hunting then you would have an argument, but since they protect your way and every other way of hunting your argument is null.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 16, 2016 17:25:51 GMT -5
It ALL comes down to jealousy, someone may kill a bigger buck than you so you gotta try stop them. A guy offered a free preserve hunt at the Indy hunting show last year and a guy was also there with a petition to shut preserves down. The guy giving the hunt away had OVER 1000 (one thousand) signatures to every 1 (one) signature on the petition to ban. That is why hunting preserves are here to stay. If the preserves affected your way of hunting then you would have an argument, but since they protect your way and every other way of hunting your argument is null. Jealousy? Not really .. Lots of people want something for nothing. And you never answered the questions.
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Post by ms660 on Jan 16, 2016 21:39:04 GMT -5
Wonder if the coyote pens will back in business?
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