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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 6, 2015 16:07:23 GMT -5
What Don is complaining about isn't just in Indiana. It's either like this now (or will be) everywhere you look in the United States. Years ago, we hunted deer after we hunted small game and birds. If we killed a buck, we weren't asked what it scored, we might be asked how many points it had, but score? Not so much 30 years or so ago. When you attach financial (or self) worth to an animal because of the score of his antlers, this IS what you get. Just ask anyone in Illinois and Iowa what hunting is like for "joe average" today versus 20 or 30 years ago. Today this quest for antlers knows no financial bounds. We have people spending thousands of dollars on leases (or hunts) to try and kill a "trophy" buck. People spending hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more) buying land to hunt on. Thousands of dollars on ATV/UTVs, $1,000 bows, $300.00 treestands, thousands on guns and optics. Today's new slugs are $3.00-$4.00 each and I'd hate to guess how much money is spent on food plots, fancy camo and game cameras. Unfortunately for those who think they have it all figured out by spending a mint on buying (and or) leasing land, they will likely spend as much time chasing off poachers (or complaining about the hunter on the adjoining 10 acres that killed "their" trophy buck), as they do actually hunting for the expensive trophies they are attempting to grow. That, my friend, is the heart of the situation. Which has absolutely nothing to do with present DNR regulations... Now there are some, like Don, that think they know more than the DNR and would like to see changes for more big bucks.. Heck, there are some in the DNR that would like that too, but the Average Joe Deer Hunter said NO.. If we had a time machine and put all the present day deer hunters back into the early seventies 3/4 of them would quit after a week of deer hunting. I've seen deer famine and deer feast and believe me we don't have it all that bad right now.. But like any other hobby the rich and/or smart will have more than others... |
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Post by sakorifle on Nov 6, 2015 16:27:59 GMT -5
And believe me its the same all over the world, Indiana seems no different to here, the priveliged have the best the rest of us are just grateful we can have a go and just sometimes we do better than them.
Its the way of the world.
regards
billy
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Post by GS1 on Nov 6, 2015 17:48:40 GMT -5
Shooting a booner is so unlikely for the majority of hunters that most do not consider it even a possibility even in the best whitetail states. I have seen some very impressive bucks killed this year and I don't know of any of the hunters that spent a million dollars to do it or had 600 acres.
Some people are idiots and attract those like them.
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Post by 76chevy on Nov 6, 2015 18:09:15 GMT -5
The more I ready crap like this the more I want to go trapping.
Don is a butt chapped whiner and obviously lacking at math skills.
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Post by freedomhunter on Nov 6, 2015 18:40:42 GMT -5
That, my friend, is the heart of the situation. Which has absolutely nothing to do with present DNR regulations... Now there are some, like Don, that think they know more than the DNR and would like to see changes for more big bucks.. Heck, there are some in the DNR that would like that too, but the Average Joe Deer Hunter said NO.. If we had a time machine and put all the present day deer hunters back into the early seventies 3/4 of them would quit after a week of deer hunting. I've seen deer famine and deer feast and believe me we don't have it all that bad right now.. But like any other hobby the rich and/or smart will have more than others... Going to call bull on all of this. Most of these big money hunters are self made and extremely driven and hunt hard. That is why they are where they are at. They want in Indiana what takes a quarter of the ground to accomplish in Ohio or Illinois or kansas. So they do what it takes. |
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Post by familytradition on Nov 6, 2015 19:54:57 GMT -5
I will start by saying that have never met Don and that I agree with some of his thoughts. Not all of Don's nieghbors are poachers. I guess that there was a family that that tended to kill as many deer as they could in the neighborhood, but they are gone now. Don is a known trouble maker with his nieghbors and tends to think he owns every deer that ever touched his property. Not a nice man with a huge ego. In 20 years the whole neighborhood will be covered in houses anyway.
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Post by duff on Nov 6, 2015 20:08:02 GMT -5
surprise surprise
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 6, 2015 20:12:47 GMT -5
Which has absolutely nothing to do with present DNR regulations... Now there are some, like Don, that think they know more than the DNR and would like to see changes for more big bucks.. Heck, there are some in the DNR that would like that too, but the Average Joe Deer Hunter said NO.. If we had a time machine and put all the present day deer hunters back into the early seventies 3/4 of them would quit after a week of deer hunting. I've seen deer famine and deer feast and believe me we don't have it all that bad right now.. But like any other hobby the rich and/or smart will have more than others... Going to call bull on all of this. Most of these big money hunters are self made and extremely driven and hunt hard. That is why they are where they are at. They want in Indiana what takes a quarter of the ground to accomplish in Ohio or Illinois or kansas. So they do what it takes. AGAIN - Show me where the current regulations has anything to do with people buying and leasing ground for hunting... Buying and leasing hunting ground has went on for a long, long, long time. |
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Post by 76chevy on Nov 6, 2015 20:32:52 GMT -5
SO long as they do it legally not a thing anyone can or should do/say to them. They might hunt to feed their family. I know of a group of amish who hunt turkey run during the reduction hunts. They are there for as many deer as legally possible. Lots of mouths to feed. I say good for them! I will start by saying that have never met Don and that I agree with some of his thoughts. Not all of Don's nieghbors are poachers. I guess that there was a family that that tended to kill as many deer as they could in the neighborhood, but they are gone now. Don is a known trouble maker with his nieghbors and tends to think he owns every deer that ever touched his property. Not a nice man with a huge ego. In 20 years the whole neighborhood will be covered in houses anyway. |
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Post by swetz on Nov 6, 2015 22:02:47 GMT -5
I don't know anything about the guy and this is the first article of his I've read, but I don't really see the point he's trying to make.
Yes, of course you'll have better hunting opportunities if you own vast swaths of private land. Private land is expensive. Things are worth what people are willing to pay.
What's his solution? All land in Indiana is public land, but he gets to decide who shoots what deer?
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Post by bullseye69 on Nov 6, 2015 23:17:57 GMT -5
Dons a DB. Don't care for him or his articles.
Me personally have never even been concerned with how a rack is scored.
Never even asked someone who got a big deer what it scored.
Just asked how much it weighted and how many points.
I call it deer season not antler season.
I have had many seasons without shooting a buck and only got does.
We like the meat, a big rack is just a bonus to me, or even a rack at all.
I hunt on 86 acres and I shoot what is given to me, whether it be doe or buck, usually does.
I tend to leave the small bucks alone, but if its close to the end of the season and the freezer isn't full yet
well......sorry little guy but....BANG!
I kind of prefer getting two or three does in one day rather than one buck.
Just my 2 cents.
I have had 4 chances at what I almost certainly think were B&C deer, but screwed them up.LOL
Oh well every year I'm out there is a new chance just like the lottery.
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Post by johnc911 on Nov 7, 2015 0:09:43 GMT -5
Glad i posted this, i knew it would get some good discussion !!
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Post by sakorifle on Nov 7, 2015 4:09:01 GMT -5
ITS absolutley no different to the money man havind a porshe or very expensive car, why because he can afford it.
And the little man having a mini. because he can afford it.
Both get you to were you are going just in a slightly different way
Its the way of the world, get over it sir.
regards
Billy
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Post by kevin1 on Nov 7, 2015 10:43:07 GMT -5
What a Richard! Why doesn't he just give up hunting if it's as bad as he seems to think? Somebody hand that guy a tampon...  |
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 7, 2015 11:06:48 GMT -5
IIRC - Don was all gung ho for Proposition 1 that the DNR said would reduce the herd. Now it's reduced he is against it. He was for it before he was against it.....
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Post by GS1 on Nov 7, 2015 15:35:07 GMT -5
What a Richard! Why doesn't he just give up hunting if it's as bad as he seems to think? Somebody hand that guy a tampon... I think the medical department at work has these. Anybody have his address?  |
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Post by mrfixit on Nov 8, 2015 8:54:06 GMT -5
Yea he's whining a bit but the gist of what he is saying is true and I rarely if ever agree with him. The deer herd numbers are down, way down. Hunter education has done for more for big bucks than thinning the does or the one buck rule.
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Post by chubwub on Nov 8, 2015 10:56:00 GMT -5
About the only thing I somewhat agree with in his article is that rich dbags...like his snobby a$$ with 201 private acres to hunt that feel the need to tell others what set of antlers people can shoot and try to control everyone else so they personally can "get a booner" are in the same category as poachers.
It would be nice if everyone had a crack at mature bucks. But it is rich manpons like him coming in and buying all the land and charging exorbitant lease prices that created this issue. The only thing DNR can do to fix the deer problem is buy more public land, or disallow people to sell leases for hunting like they do in Alberta, Canada.
I'm to the point where I wish deer didn't have antlers anymore. It's the same ridiculousness as the band obsession in duck hunting.
When big money gets involved it ruins everything.
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Post by tynimiller on Nov 9, 2015 8:56:35 GMT -5
About the only thing I somewhat agree with in his article is that rich dbags...like his snobby a$$ with 201 private acres to hunt that feel the need to tell others what set of antlers people can shoot and try to control everyone else so they personally can "get a booner" are in the same category as poachers. It would be nice if everyone had a crack at mature bucks. But it is rich manpons like him coming in and buying all the land and charging exorbitant lease prices that created this issue. The only thing DNR can do to fix the deer problem is buy more public land, or disallow people to sell leases for hunting like they do in Alberta, Canada. I'm to the point where I wish deer didn't have antlers anymore. It's the same ridiculousness as the band obsession in duck hunting. When big money gets involved it ruins everything. Chub I hear ya man, but have you noticed it seems to be an either or type mindset anymore in our hunting ranks? You are either for only harvesting trophy bucks or completely against any thought of letting them grow...seems odd to me. Hunting is such a personal thing and no one should control what another wants to do. No one knows how much time one can dedicate to the art of hunting...perhaps its a 2 weekend a year thing and they love it for that...or perhaps it is a 356days a year type thing and they love it for that. I think hunters need to realize the beauty of hunting is that you can spend as little as possible (jeans, flannel jacket, old bow or shotgun on public free land) or as much as you want (all the gadgets, plots, BIG lease farms). The lease thing does worry this poorer Hoosier boy though, because I own zero land myself...and fully depend on others allowing my access. Although I'll be honest I invest a ton of sweat equity, money in thank you cards and other things that it might as well be a lease....but it seems different because I do the things out of gratitude not due to a legal binding. I'd love to see leasing become illegal...but it wouldn't stop guys "buying" the rights to farms sadly. Someday I foresee I'll be relying a lot on public land...until than I'm gonna be extremely grateful. |
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Post by chubwub on Nov 9, 2015 10:23:54 GMT -5
Perhaps I should clarify it's probably the mindset that big money and leasing creates that I really dislike. Big money and leasing is all about keeping people out of the sport/area and driving them away and reserving only the best for a select few. It is all about ME, ME, ME and not necessarily about what is best for the wildlife, the future of hunting and the needs of the community. It's not about forming relationships with people, fostering trust and respect or even camaraderie. Leasing is strictly business.
Hunting leases do benefit wildlife in the short term, and I absolutely love doing habitat management on our little slice of land but be honest, how many of you would be willing to give that land over to the state to ensure that it always remains wild if you could no longer maintain it, and not just sell out to some housing development and move on to buy more land elsewhere to hunt just because money was thrown at you?
Public land at its best is a partnership between many like-minded individuals who have come together for the greater good and said "What can we do as a group to ensure the permanent continuation of our sport and wildlife?"
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