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Post by oneshot on May 31, 2011 7:59:30 GMT -5
I was a member for a few years a long time ago. I felt that the IBA was a group of trad shooters that did not welcome anyone that was not trad. They sent me a questionaire, I stated my concerns......they never got back to me. Ane I never got back with them.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 8:06:33 GMT -5
"Strange behavior for a bunch of selfish elitist snobs"
Couldn't agree more with that statement. Strange in fact that they are OK with kids joining the hunting ranks as long as it's with a conventional archery equip. While most of us are for kids entering into hunting under any means. Strange indeed that they are ok with the maimed and cripples using a crossbow, but the hell with others that might choose to. Most of us accepth the fact that any new hunters a good for the sport.
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Post by Woody Williams on May 31, 2011 8:32:51 GMT -5
I expect the IBA would increase membership and popularity if they also embraced the use of muzzle loaders in archery season. And then PCR's, shotguns, and eventually .30-06's. Wouldn't be doing anything for BOWHUNTING, but it would be popular. The IBA has always encouraged others to join us in hunting with BOWS. Much of their effort over the years has been to introduce kids to the sport of BOWhunting, and promote it to anyone who would listen. No, they haven't done much to promote the use of crossbows by individuals capable of using bows, although archers in general, and the IBA in particular, has welcomed those who need the crossbow because of physical limitations to join us in bow seasons for at least 25 years, here in IN, and longer than that in some areas. Strange behavior for a bunch of selfish elitist snobs. Russ, What it amounts to is the IBA and the IDHA has always said," Establish a crossbow license and let them have their own season." Of course you and I know that these same folks would not admit to it that as soon as that license was established they would campaign to keep crossbows in the late season and in the firearm season. An officer in the IBA let it slip that was their plan. The DNR IS establishing a crossbow license (so the "elite bowhunters" can still claim superiority ) AND establishing a crossbow season that will coincide with the early archery season. That is what the IBA and the IDHA always said that they wanted - a license and the crossbow having their own season. Of course they weren't being honest. It was a ploy to keep crossbows out of October. Personally I have never had a problem with a license (although I think it is silly, but it is more money for the DNR) and a crossbow season as long as it was in the time frame with other like hunting tools. Sticking crossbows in the late season and the firearm season does absolutely NOTHING for hunting, recruitment or deer management. The DNR wants to kill more deer BEFORE the peak deer and vehicle accinnet time of the year. The "stakeholders" would not buy into the 9 day anterless hunt in October that Chad wanted and the input recieved on Proposal #1 was against the 2 day antlerless hunt in October. What was left for the DNR? The very same thing that they wanted all along - crossbows. Now the bowhunters are complaining about that. It seems to me that the DNR and NRC are starting to see that a lot of bowhunters are simply selfish with October....unless someone is packing a vertical bow. And vertical bows are not getting the job done....
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Post by trapperdave on May 31, 2011 8:53:28 GMT -5
who here knows the REAL reason the IBA was created? (other than myself )
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Post by jjas on May 31, 2011 9:39:19 GMT -5
I expect the IBA would increase membership and popularity if they also embraced the use of muzzle loaders in archery season. And then PCR's, shotguns, and eventually .30-06's. Wouldn't be doing anything for BOWHUNTING, but it would be popular. The IBA has always encouraged others to join us in hunting with BOWS. Much of their effort over the years has been to introduce kids to the sport of BOWhunting, and promote it to anyone who would listen. No, they haven't done much to promote the use of crossbows by individuals capable of using bows, although archers in general, and the IBA in particular, has welcomed those who need the crossbow because of physical limitations to join us in bow seasons for at least 25 years, here in IN, and longer than that in some areas. Strange behavior for a bunch of selfish elitist snobs. Russ, What it amounts to is the IBA and the IDHA has always said," Establish a crossbow license and let them have their own season." Of course you and I know that these same folks would not admit to it that as soon as that license was established they would campaign to keep crossbows in the late season and in the firearm season. An officer in the IBA let it slip that was their plan. The DNR IS establishing a crossbow license (so the "elite bowhunters" can still claim superiority ) AND establishing a crossbow season that will coincide with the early archery season. That is what the IBA and the IDHA always said that they wanted - a license and the crossbow having their own season. Of course they weren't being honest. It was a ploy to keep crossbows out of October. Personally I have never had a problem with a license (although I think it is silly, but it is more money for the DNR) and a crossbow season as long as it was in the time frame with other like hunting tools. Sticking crossbows in the late season and the firearm season does absolutely NOTHING for hunting, recruitment or deer management. The DNR wants to kill more deer BEFORE the peak deer and vehicle accinnet time of the year. The "stakeholders" would not buy into the 9 day anterless hunt in October that Chad wanted and the input recieved on Proposal #1 was against the 2 day antlerless hunt in October. What was left for the DNR? The very same thing that they wanted all along - crossbows. Now the bowhunters are complaining about that. It seems to me that the DNR and NRC are starting to see that a lot of bowhunters are simply selfish with October....unless someone is packing a vertical bow. And vertical bows are not getting the job done.... .
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Post by jjas on May 31, 2011 9:39:53 GMT -5
who here knows the REAL reason the IBA was created? (other than myself ) Hey TD, fill me in.
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Post by Woody Williams on May 31, 2011 9:46:46 GMT -5
who here knows the REAL reason the IBA was created? (other than myself ) Hey TD, fill me in. No sure where you all are going with this? Basically the subject has evolved to crossbows AGAIN so lets try and stick to that subject and why the IBA is against them.
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Post by trapperdave on May 31, 2011 10:30:59 GMT -5
I sent an email to one of the original founders, G Fred Asbell. He was kind enough to reply.
Mr. Scott..Good hearing from you. Basically the IBA started as little more than an archery club. It started in Petersburg and Winslow, down in Pike County. There had been an archery club there that closed down...for all the reasons clubs do that I guess...and a couple of fellas, Jack Brock and Bernard Willis didn't want to give it up and started another club utilizing a fish & game area outside Winslow. They were bowhunters and thought field archery and thus, competitive shooting, was one of the reasons the earlier club had folded, and they went completely away from that. There was an organization in Louisville, KY, called, I think, American Bowhunting (Club? etc.)...and I think the "round" which the IBA adopted came from there. Jack and Bernard (his father-in-law), and a fella named Joe Boger decided to call it the Indiana Bowhunters Assoc. They only had about a half-dozen bow shooters who came to the shoots they put on at the Pike County F&G. There was a little newspaper sort of thing around and I read that the Indiana Bowhunters Assoc. were gonna have this big shoot. I'd grown up in Petersburg, and my parents still lived there, but I had been up in Greencastle for several years. I was really into bows and arrows and was running the Cloverdale archery club, Deer Creek Archers. and couldn't find out anything about this event, so I drove down to attend the thing. I was the only one there from outside their group...must have been 7 or 8 of us, total. I loved the round and told them they had a winner. Basically I went back to Cloverdale and started building, what I started calling an IBA course. At the next Petersburg shoot I brought a caravan of vehicles loaded with bowshooters, and then we put on an IBA shoot in Cloverdale, and the Indiana bowhunting community went wild for it. By the end of that summer we must have had at least a half-dozen ranges operating at existing archery clubs. Bloomington, Bedford, two club in Indianapolis, Danville, two or three clubs in northern Indiana, etc. The clubs and the archers were hungry for something different than the old field rounds...shoot 4 arrows from known distances at 28 targets. Score cards, classes, etc.. Long before the end of that first summer they made me the president. I'm telling all of this so you understand that the IBA came out of a need for BOWHUNTING PRACTICE and rubbing shoulders with those who were interested in bowhunting. Compounds were just barely on the horizon. Sights on bows were the main objections that bowhunters had...all of that pointing back at competitive shooting, and how it was believed that the sight had basically ruined what had been organized for practice bowhunting...and there was truth to that. At first, no sights were allowed in the IBA, and I was responsible for getting that changed...and some fellas never forgave me for it, because soon enough the sight shooter, some with a dozen pins, were dominating all the shoots. There had never been classes in the IBA, but eventually they went to them and the IBA followed the same path that competitive archery created from the moment someone realized they could be more successful if you allowed them to begin doing it THIS way....whatever THAT way may be that makes it easier and takes less involvement. What we've seen throughout all the years of archery and bowhunting has been a continuous movement to simplify and make everyone capable of winning the prize...whatever it might be. I am not a proponent of the crossbow, Mr. Scott. It's a continuation of the same old "let's make it easier so everyone can do it" theory that has plagued archery and bowhunting since the beginning. Someone wants to make money and creating something easier/more productive rushes to the head of the class. Here in Michigan the crossbow is now legal throughout the bow season. I have no idea how many crossbows have been sold, but I doubt that a single "bowhunter" has been created. Of course, gun hunters like it, they can now have a weapon that is handled just like their rifle and they can use it from October to December, and kill animals just about as far as they could with a gun in Michigan's heavy timber. Friends, who didn't have any objection to the inclusion of the crossbow into archery season, have a totally different thing to say about the matter now. "There's a danged crossbow hunter in every tree on public ground now. Twelve year olds with a scope sighted crossbow are hunting the bow season now, believing that they can kill a deer at over 100 yards and you and I are out there too...wearing camouflage." Archery shops and people in the industry are happy about it because everyone can be a bowhunter now...and that means money. They talk opportunity, and getting more people involved in bowhunting, but it's to no ones advantage except the man behind the cash register... It will/is definitely having a negative effect on the future of bowhunting. It's not a good picture, Mr. Scott. Sadly, a lot of people in the archery industry know that too, but they are not gonna rock the boat. Numbers of animals killed go up and numbers of hunters go down....it's fact being proven already in many states. It's gonna be hard to keep the crossbow out of bowhunting....and almost no one I know objects to crossbow hunters having their own season, just not in bowseason, and let's not call them bowhunters. But I'm sure the Indiana Bowhunters Assoc. would love having your support. We need thinkers, Mr. Scott, and you seem like a man committed to learning and thinking. Good shooting, G. Fred Asbell
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Post by whiteoak on May 31, 2011 12:12:00 GMT -5
Very interesting reply. I never knew the IBA originated in my home county of Pike. I live just a few mile from the F&G Area near Winslow. I have the upmost respect for Mr. Asbell and what he has accomplished for the bow hunters not only in our state but everywhere, but I have to disagree on his stance and that the IBA has taken on the crossbow issue. Ten years ago I was very anti-crossbow during archery. I have since became educated on the abilities and use of crossbows and have completely changed my views. Actually I was even down on the firearms hunter while I was a strictly bow hunter only for years. I now try to utilize every weapon that's legal to use in our state and from this, I feel have became a better hunter.
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Post by hornharvester on May 31, 2011 12:34:40 GMT -5
If you read between the lines Mr Asbell is saying IBA bow hunters don't want to share the woods in Oct. His quote about a crossbow hunter in every tree pretty much sums it up. Very selfish in my opinion.
Organizations that are closed minded and don't expand with changes usually fold up and cease to exist. h.h.
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Post by 76chevy on May 31, 2011 12:56:57 GMT -5
....Someone wants to make money and creating something easier/more productive rushes to the head of the class....that's called progress, and it's what makes this country great! That's how we have the best drug discovery pipeline in the world and design and build many of the best engineered products. Also, I thought more hunters is a good thing for the sport? The IBA in my estimation an organization that started with the best of intentions and lived up to them for years. It has done a lot of good for a lot of years, no one can deny that. Then the imperfect and generally selfish humans beings running it went off course. It then became about 'my' weapon and keeping others out of 'my' season.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 13:10:37 GMT -5
"There was an organization in Louisville, KY, called, I think, American Bowhunting (Club? etc.)..."
Humm....not correct, it was called the Kentucky Bowhunters Assoc., and at one time was doing great with hundreds of members. They then went off the deep end just when archery was expanding and taking on new ground. They would not adapt, and required their members to use wood or fiberglass arrows, among several other stupid requirements. Hence, they are no longer in business. There are now two bowhunting groups in Ky. and both of them are annually loosing members, as is the blanket org. known as the Kentucky League of Sportsman........they all have one thing in common......they fought tooth and nail over the crossbow expansion in Ky. a few years ago.
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Post by tickman1961 on May 31, 2011 13:22:37 GMT -5
The fact the Pope and Young gave them an award should tell you where the "ANTI CROSSBOW" thinking comes from.
YES, THEY ARE ANTI everything but bow and arrow - no bolts allowed. ELITIST!
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Post by mattfinney on May 31, 2011 15:19:23 GMT -5
The real elitests are the deer hunters that think I shouldn't be allowed to snare my deer. Just think how much easier it would be if we could just set a bunch of snares all over the woods, and let them do the hunting for us...24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Why even have seasons for that matter, the DNR is trying to kill more deer, just let us hunt them year round, with no license required or anything. Maybe if we loose all the restrictions, we could totally wipe the deer out of this state. Wouldn't that be great?...just like the we did years ago with the deer, turkey, bison, and elk (eastern elk are extinct BTW EXTINCT).
You know who else is elitest....those darn anti-spotlighters. Who are they to tell me I can't shoot deer from my truck with a spotlight? I really hate getting out of the truck to hunt. It's such a hassle ...sometimes you get your boots muddy, you have to deal with the rain, snow, and cold. Why can't I just shoot deer from the comfort of my truck and with a spotlight?
Ideally, I would have robotically controlled weapons (with night vision), preferably .50 BMG (for those 1.5 mile shots), mounted in the field that I could then control from my living room with my playstation. With this setup, I could sip coffee in my pj's, while helping to extinct those pesky whitetails. Anybody who rejects this notion is the true elitest.
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Post by hornharvester on May 31, 2011 17:12:22 GMT -5
The real elitests are the deer hunters that think I shouldn't be allowed to snare my deer. Just think how much easier it would be if we could just set a bunch of snares all over the woods, and let them do the hunting for us...24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Why even have seasons for that matter, the DNR is trying to kill more deer, just let us hunt them year round, with no license required or anything. Maybe if we loose all the restrictions, we could totally wipe the deer out of this state. Wouldn't that be great?...just like the we did years ago with the deer, turkey, bison, and elk (eastern elk are extinct BTW EXTINCT). You know who else is elitest....those darn anti-spotlighters. Who are they to tell me I can't shoot deer from my truck with a spotlight? I really hate getting out of the truck to hunt. It's such a hassle ...sometimes you get your boots muddy, you have to deal with the rain, snow, and cold. Why can't I just shoot deer from the comfort of my truck and with a spotlight? Ideally, I would have robotically controlled weapons (with night vision), preferably .50 BMG (for those 1.5 mile shots), mounted in the field that I could then control from my living room with my playstation. With this setup, I could sip coffee in my pj's, while helping to extinct those pesky whitetails. Anybody who rejects this notion is the true elitest. Matt, Nothing you just wrote makes a bit of sense as why the IBA is against crossbows in archery season. h.h.
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Post by Woody Williams on May 31, 2011 17:15:05 GMT -5
TD,
I remember those days well. That was about the time that we reorganized Blackhawk Bowmen into Blackhawk Bowhunters. The old club was a field archery club and one of the best in the country. It was a dying sport. About a half dozen of us met in Don Castrup's archery lanes in the basement of the old ABC store.
It took off well as a bowhunters club with us having 3D shoots every month from February through September. We also had an annual ground hog hunt , big buck contest, and banquet. Our big shoot , Blackhawk Bonanza usually had close to 400 shooters.
About our third year of operation we were approached by the IBA to "affiliate" with them.I don't remember all the particulars but the president (me) and the board decided we were doing just fine and said no thanks.
I haven't been a member for a long time there, but I think that they are still going strong.
Shooting the 4th Sunday of every month..
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Post by racktracker on May 31, 2011 17:29:14 GMT -5
Typical Matthew.. Real cute.
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Post by deweydutchmen on May 31, 2011 17:32:59 GMT -5
The real elitests are the deer hunters that think I shouldn't be allowed to snare my deer. Just think how much easier it would be if we could just set a bunch of snares all over the woods, and let them do the hunting for us...24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Why even have seasons for that matter, the DNR is trying to kill more deer, just let us hunt them year round, with no license required or anything. Maybe if we loose all the restrictions, we could totally wipe the deer out of this state. Wouldn't that be great?...just like the we did years ago with the deer, turkey, bison, and elk (eastern elk are extinct BTW EXTINCT). You know who else is elitest....those darn anti-spotlighters. Who are they to tell me I can't shoot deer from my truck with a spotlight? I really hate getting out of the truck to hunt. It's such a hassle ...sometimes you get your boots muddy, you have to deal with the rain, snow, and cold. Why can't I just shoot deer from the comfort of my truck and with a spotlight? Ideally, I would have robotically controlled weapons (with night vision), preferably .50 BMG (for those 1.5 mile shots), mounted in the field that I could then control from my living room with my playstation. With this setup, I could sip coffee in my pj's, while helping to extinct those pesky whitetails. Anybody who rejects this notion is the true elitest.
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Post by racktracker on May 31, 2011 17:36:36 GMT -5
Fred is dinosaurer. His method of canting his bow and "look the arrowinto where you want it to go" and teaching others to do the same caused a lot of people to shoot poorly. I watched some shooters at a 3D shoot use Fred's technique and it was pitiful to behold.
Yes, his diatribe against crossbows is the same old stuff, just a different day.
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Post by jjas on May 31, 2011 17:56:26 GMT -5
The real elitests are the deer hunters that think I shouldn't be allowed to snare my deer. Just think how much easier it would be if we could just set a bunch of snares all over the woods, and let them do the hunting for us...24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Why even have seasons for that matter, the DNR is trying to kill more deer, just let us hunt them year round, with no license required or anything. Maybe if we loose all the restrictions, we could totally wipe the deer out of this state. Wouldn't that be great?...just like the we did years ago with the deer, turkey, bison, and elk (eastern elk are extinct BTW EXTINCT). You know who else is elitest....those darn anti-spotlighters. Who are they to tell me I can't shoot deer from my truck with a spotlight? I really hate getting out of the truck to hunt. It's such a hassle ...sometimes you get your boots muddy, you have to deal with the rain, snow, and cold. Why can't I just shoot deer from the comfort of my truck and with a spotlight? Ideally, I would have robotically controlled weapons (with night vision), preferably .50 BMG (for those 1.5 mile shots), mounted in the field that I could then control from my living room with my playstation. With this setup, I could sip coffee in my pj's, while helping to extinct those pesky whitetails. Anybody who rejects this notion is the true elitest.
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