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Post by tenring on Feb 23, 2010 16:45:45 GMT -5
To quote the now retired "Big John Olsen", the definition of a deer biologist is a person who has a subscription to Deer and Deer Hunting Magazine, and has sat in a deer stand for at least 30 minutes. Right Buster? A minor correction in the quote. Some deer hunters believe that they are deer biologists because they sat in a deer stand for thirty minutes instead of spending many 6-8 years in college. Sorry 'bout that Big John, hadn't had my mid morning nap yet, welcome back to the world of "If'n I wuz runin tha sho."
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Post by huxbux on Feb 23, 2010 17:25:14 GMT -5
To quote the now retired "Big John Olsen", the definition of a deer biologist is a person who has a subscription to Deer and Deer Hunting Magazine, and has sat in a deer stand for at least 30 minutes. Right Buster? A minor correction in the quote. Some deer hunters believe that they are deer biologists because they sat in a deer stand for thirty minutes instead of spending many 6-8 years in college. And on the other hand, 6-8 years of book learnin' and little practical experience makes for a poor biologist or "expert" in any other field for that matter.
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Post by drs on Feb 24, 2010 8:44:32 GMT -5
And on the other hand, 6-8 years of book learnin' and little practical experience makes for a poor biologist or "expert" in any other field for that matter. Game Biologists need BOTH College Level Studies & Pratical Experience in the field.
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Post by throbak on Feb 24, 2010 9:11:12 GMT -5
I have worked with a lot of biologist both students and career what the difference is without the schooling you might know everything about the outdoors but without the school you dont know what to do with or really comprehend what it means, LIKE THIS DEER SUMMERY REPORT
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Post by tenring on Feb 24, 2010 10:12:52 GMT -5
So when are all you fellars going to apply for the job so it will be done right?
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Post by huxbux on Feb 24, 2010 16:38:01 GMT -5
I have worked with a lot of biologist both students and career what the difference is without the schooling you might know everything about the outdoors but without the school you dont know what to do with or really comprehend what it means, LIKE THIS DEER SUMMERY REPORT I see. Didn't know one had to have a degree in order to comprehend data. I stand corrected.
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Post by throbak on Feb 24, 2010 17:28:16 GMT -5
I didn't mean you had to HAVE TO HAVE DEGREE . just that compiling every thing you collect it helps to know what to do with IT AND be able to put it to use it. I have worked with bios on bobcats, henslows, Indiana bats, otters and warblers of all kinds, but being able to understand the trends and population swings,likes and dislikes of a certain species takes someone who knows how to put it all together. the degree teaches the students how to do that .I used to think like you but not any more. obviously I don't
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Post by huxbux on Feb 24, 2010 18:38:22 GMT -5
I didn't mean you had to HAVE TO HAVE DEGREE . just that compiling every thing you collect it helps to know what to do with IT AND be able to put it to use it. I have worked with bios on bobcats, henslows, Indiana bats, otters and warblers of all kinds, but being able to understand the trends and population swings,likes and dislikes of a certain species takes someone who knows how to put it all together. the degree teaches the students how to do that .I used to think like you but not any more. obviously I don't No need to get into a bickering match here. Obviously you've read something into my post that I did not intend. I merely pointed out the fact that a degree in hand does not make one an expert on anything. It takes a few years of practical experience before it will all come together. This does not mean the education isn't necessary or valuable. Hope this clears up my position.
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Post by throbak on Feb 25, 2010 7:16:29 GMT -5
cleared up I do that sometimes ., see things that are not really there
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Post by deerman1 on Feb 27, 2010 15:18:26 GMT -5
You misunderstood my post. It was NOT directed at you at all. It was directed at GregHopper who likes to cut down Jim and Johh every chane he gets. These type of people do not understand that Jim and John made this herd what it is today. Just because Jim and John did not agree with the growing trophy deer and concentrated on a healthy herd they get lamblasted by these people. Yes, let the biologists make the decisions. They are the ones trained for it and paid for it. Deerman, I was agreeing with racktracker' post to GregHopper. I also agree with you on your position of letting the biologists do the decision making. I've met Chad, had several discussions in person and over the net and I do believe that he is a good one. The reports that he puts out are top notch. Stick around. WW After a long ponder and some rereads and seeing what racktracker ,buster ,and you have stated and the fact I am as sensible as the next man I have decided to occasionally place some input here . But I simply will not argue about my land or the animals on it with anyone or my methods that I hunt or manage by it has proven perfect for our local and deer herd. After a lot of years hunting a lot of different states, and terrains ,as well as climates. I know deer and the management of them is not the same as mine or yours or anyones in every location . The end result of my personal management plan is a very health herd here and an age structure that will rival that of any other deer states or individuals plan for management . I have ran the same plan for over twenty years here it works as does my deer hunting ,scouting ,and deer herd censusing methods . Will my methods work else where? Maybe maybe not . All I do know is I will not be told about my land ,its make up ,its vegetative state , its deer herd, or my management plan being wrong by anyone ,or any agency that only does a overview of an entire area or state. Or when a person never have layed eyes on what I have or seen what I do this is where I draw the line as all hunters should on the land they own or hunt only they really know what is needed or is really there . I will never tell others what their land is like or need unless I hunt it or frequent it alot and then only when asked openly to give an opinion other wise it would be rude or asinine on my part . Also if my land had a "Browse line" that is not there I would admit it . I know deer browse that is why I plant browse every year and leave up prime browse and no my deer browse the woods and brush less than the average as they feel free to browse openly almost year round in food plots and plantings of grain crops that are nothing more than browse in reality as is the the alfalfa hay fields we have are . I have thick skin and will argue politics ,over all herd management on a grand scale , rules ,equipment and its merits or lack of, and even deer aging or the lack of expertise. I will even argue about the DNR and its personal. But I will not argue about my personal hunting methods ,ethics ,or my management of the deer I feed and house 300 or more of the 365 days a year .That will always be off limits in my mind . If I were struggling or the deer herd in my area was suffering I would be the first to know it and you would all know as I gripped about it and the quality of the bucks and doe and lack of them . The weight that my deer are per the age they are seem to be at least 10 to 20 % higher than the southern deer of our state as they are also heavier than the sand ground northern deer that I have taken and hunted in most instance that is not a guess it is fact we also have a farm in Pulaski co. < hunted there 22 years large Ag farm ,and the place we hunted for about 4 years in Dearborn co. but am I so ignorant to believe every place up north or down south is like this "NO" there are folks who own or manage some top deer and land in every part of the state . Those who just hunt ,or hunt and only pass up young deer you are just shopping for a deer you want ! That is a fact. You are truly not managing any thing other than your trigger finger. If you own land or have the ability to plant ,clear ,and count /age on site the deer you hunt on the land you hunt and make adjustments accordingly you are now part of personal deer herd m,management there is a difference from just hunting for what animal you like and putting in year round effort ,money ,time ,and understanding what it all is accomplishing and what animals you have needs to be taken and the ones that do not need to be . That man is managing his own deer herd where he hunts ,and what they eat were they stay and its future . The deer shooter/'passer hunter is only part of a state wide management tool if they really do not know the whole picture of what the deer numbers are around them/ age make up , or what they really need like cover or clearing ,food, and do some thing to give them what they need an that may not be just shooting some deer. I understand not everyone can add too or change the land they hunt { I am sorry for you been there done that 35 years ago} but they can do more than show up a few weeks or month prior to season walk around or drive around a day or two and just put a stand up where they seen some deer or deer sign. They can stay with it off and on year round trow alot of no till seeds out and get some more accurate numbers than just a guess of what is there because they saw a few deer or alot of tracks! Just my opinion Do not complain when you do not take the quality or number of deer you want to if you do not try harder and work at it more than a few weekends a year an put nothing into the deer but a deer license . And then turn around and tell me I am wrong and/lieing or just plain wrong when my walls are loaded with what you just called failures and my fields/woods are full or super fat and sassy deer year round . With big old racks to boot because I do get it and they must have something they need to get that way . PS I do not trust any gov,. agency or man to do what is right for every hunter or area they can not ever know what is needed In this respect ,when the end result is always about power and money they will always do what is best for them/ the job they want , and their pocket book.
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Post by turkeyscout on Feb 27, 2010 18:41:25 GMT -5
....hey deerman1, i'm glad your back and posting!!!!!!....welcome and post often, i am proud of you for being a great caretaker of your land and wildlife, job well done!!!!!.........turkey scout
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