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358 BFG
Feb 22, 2009 10:48:41 GMT -5
Post by swilk on Feb 22, 2009 10:48:41 GMT -5
With a bit better weather I was able to start playing a little with the 358. I have spent the last few months collecting data from as many sources as possible .... sifting through that data ... and then finding the spot I wanted to start from. I decided on using 10x and H4895 as my starting powders .... CCI standard large rifle primers .... and the Hornady 180gr SP bullet. The gun is a Winchester M70 with a 22" Shilen SS barrel topped with a Leupold VXII 3-9x40. I have not done any shooting with the 4895 yet ... but I did get some range time with the 10x. Every load I tried shot very well. I was shooting from a makeshift bench from a distance of 100 yards. The largest group was under 1.25" and I have no doubts that could be cut in half with a better bench and a better effort by the shooter. I am in no way done testing but so far things look very promising. No pressure signs at all. Loads went across the chrono at 2625 for the lightest load tried and 2730 for the heaviest load tried. This is from a 22" barrel. I actually have a 26" TC Encore barrel coming in this caliber as well.   |
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358 BFG
Feb 22, 2009 12:58:38 GMT -5
Post by danf on Feb 22, 2009 12:58:38 GMT -5
Wow! That's nice.
I don't have any experience with 10x, and very little with the 4895 (I'm loading .223's with 4895 right now), but from what I understand the 4895 is a very versatile powder- I got it to load pretty much all of my bottleneck cartridges. I'm betting you will find a good load with the 4895 too.
I remember you posting info on that round- what is the parent case again? Who are you having make your Encore barrel?
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358 BFG
Feb 22, 2009 13:03:05 GMT -5
Post by drs on Feb 22, 2009 13:03:05 GMT -5
Wow! That's nice. I remember you posting info on that round- what is the parent case again? Who are you having make your Encore barrel? I believe it's based on the .25 WSSM case necked-up to .357". |
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358 BFG
Feb 22, 2009 13:08:23 GMT -5
Post by swilk on Feb 22, 2009 13:08:23 GMT -5
The parent case is a 25 wssm necked up to .358 and cut to a length of 1.620" I am buying all my brass pre-formed from bfgcartridges .....
bfgcartridges is also who I am going through for the encore barrels. He is sending his reamer to Match Grade Machine and they will be using Shilen barrels. I expect to have that barrel in 6-8 weeks.
I am anxious to try the 4895 ..... Im not sure it will better the 10x though.
Ultimately, velocity will be limited by case capacity. 2800fps may be attainable but you will be compressing the powder pretty tight into that little case. I think a 2700fps load that will shoot under an inch at 100 yards using a 180gr bullet will work just fine for my needs.
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358 BFG
Feb 22, 2009 13:16:32 GMT -5
Post by danf on Feb 22, 2009 13:16:32 GMT -5
2700 fps with a 180 gr bullet should be more than adequate.  This just adds to the list of possible wildcats that are deer-legal! ;D |
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358 BFG
Feb 22, 2009 13:29:42 GMT -5
Post by swilk on Feb 22, 2009 13:29:42 GMT -5
And the recoil isnt bad either. It isnt even in the same league as a slug gun or my savage smokeless MZ. Feels about like a 30-06 or 308 in a similar weight gun.
When I get the encore barrel i might work up a load using the accubond 225gr bullet at 2500fps or so.
My biggest problem right now is I need to upgrade some of my reloading equipment. I really, really want an rcbs electronic powder dispenser and scale combo. Manually weighing each and every charge is so time consuming.
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358 BFG
Feb 22, 2009 13:35:15 GMT -5
Post by swilk on Feb 22, 2009 13:35:15 GMT -5
I would say this round is at ragged edge (performance wise) of the legal wildcat rounds .... and honestly it doesnt surpass the ballistic capability of the Savage MZ. However, it is easier to shoot and more convenient.
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358 BFG
Feb 22, 2009 13:46:37 GMT -5
Post by Decatur on Feb 22, 2009 13:46:37 GMT -5
What does "BFG" stand for? ;d
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358 BFG
Feb 22, 2009 13:47:32 GMT -5
Post by drs on Feb 22, 2009 13:47:32 GMT -5
The parent case is a 25 wssm necked up to .358 and cut to a length of 1.620" I am anxious to try the 4895 ..... Im not sure it will better the 10x though. Ultimately, velocity will be limited by case capacity. 2800fps may be attainable but you will be compressing the powder pretty tight into that little case. I think a 2700fps load that will shoot under an inch at 100 yards using a 180gr bullet will work just fine for my needs. You might try WW-748. Since your case is on the small size lenghtwise & case capacity, this type powder might improve your ballistics. Also IMR-4064 might be a good one to try, but don't know about reaching 2,800 FPS. More like you'll get between 2,400 to 2,650 FPS without running into pressure problems. |
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358 BFG
Feb 22, 2009 13:56:59 GMT -5
Post by swilk on Feb 22, 2009 13:56:59 GMT -5
What does "BFG" stand for? ;d haha .... I asked him the same thing. He actually offers a handful of legal wildcat rounds .... a little milder .358 called the Gremilin all the way up to the .500BFG. Im not even gonna try and reach the 2800fps plateau .... really no reason given my situation. My testing is going to revolve around consistency and accuracy. If I can find a round that goes 2700 .... prints an inch or better and does it day in and day out no matter the weather or other variables ..... I will be a happy man. Im pretty sure 10x or 4895 will do what I seek. |
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358 BFG
Feb 22, 2009 14:12:18 GMT -5
Post by drs on Feb 22, 2009 14:12:18 GMT -5
You might be better off using IMR-4895. It is one step slower burning than IMR-4064. IMR-4320 might be another option looking into if you don't want to use double-based powders or ball powders. <Good Luck!>  |
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358 BFG
Feb 24, 2009 8:25:56 GMT -5
Post by chicobrownbear on Feb 24, 2009 8:25:56 GMT -5
That round looks like fun.
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358 BFG
Feb 26, 2009 12:33:02 GMT -5
Post by RoadKill on Feb 26, 2009 12:33:02 GMT -5
swilk, That looks like a neat round. I'm sure interested in you Encore results. I've been in contact with BFG a bit myself. I believe that pushed to max/magnum pressures that 2800+ fps is doable. However, I have some reservations about pushing that much pressure on that large of a diameter case in the Encore. I think your goals of working for accuracy at lower intensity is the way to go. Please keep us posted on your results. Thanks, Take care, have fun... Roger D. in Southern Indiana (Jackson County) |
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358 BFG
Feb 26, 2009 15:26:23 GMT -5
Post by BIGHORN on Feb 26, 2009 15:26:23 GMT -5
forgive me for not knowing this, but how does this fit into the PCR for deer hunting here in Indiana?
If shot out of a T/C with pistol barrel I understand. But out of a 26" barrel, I do not understand how it fits in the regulations.
Mighty interesting round, that is why I ask.
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358 BFG
Feb 26, 2009 15:30:49 GMT -5
Post by Decatur on Feb 26, 2009 15:30:49 GMT -5
Case length is probably under the maximum allowed.
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358 BFG
Feb 26, 2009 18:21:02 GMT -5
Post by swilk on Feb 26, 2009 18:21:02 GMT -5
The 3 criteria for a legal PCR round are:
Bullet diameter .357" or bigger
Case length longer than 1.16" but shorter than 1.625"
This round has a bullet diameter of .358 and a case length of 1.620" ......
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358 BFG
Feb 26, 2009 19:09:05 GMT -5
Post by BIGHORN on Feb 26, 2009 19:09:05 GMT -5
Thanks.
I guess I didn't read the definations good enough.
Should make a nice deer gun !!!!!!
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358 BFG
Feb 26, 2009 21:19:20 GMT -5
Post by danf on Feb 26, 2009 21:19:20 GMT -5
The length of the barrel would not matter if it was in pistol configuration, regardless of case length, as long as it met the minimum bullet and case length requirements. In other words, if you wanted to use an Encore *pistol* with a 22" barrel chambered in .30-06, you'd be legal. |
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358 BFG
Feb 27, 2009 8:12:36 GMT -5
Post by drs on Feb 27, 2009 8:12:36 GMT -5
Although the 358 BFG sounds like a very good cartridge; it does, IMHO sounds like it sort of a "Gray Area" concerning PCR Ammo. It's more rifle like than pistol. I really believe the intent of the State of Indiana to allow "Strightwalled" Traditional pistol cartridges and not wildcat cartridges except for the few they have listed. It would be up to the IDNR as to whether or not it would be a legal cartridge for Indiana Deer Hunting.
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358 BFG
Feb 27, 2009 8:27:19 GMT -5
Post by danf on Feb 27, 2009 8:27:19 GMT -5
As spec'ed, it's perfectly legal. No gray area. See the ".357 Herett Short" thread in the "Ask a CO" forum!
If the intent was "straightwalled", then they would have said so in the regulations. That would effectively NIX many of the currently allowed rounds in the truest sense of "straightwalled", since many of the PCR chamberings are tapered. Also, IIRC, no where in the reg's do they state ANYTHING about "pistol caliber rifles". That is a term that we have been using, but is NOT mentioned in the regs.
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