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Post by freedomhunter on Dec 14, 2008 16:49:36 GMT -5
I've never seen an older buck "step out" into a food plot and pose for a shot. I've never seen one come into a pile of corn in Kentucky. No advantage of plots or bait other than keeping deer on your ground. I've seen the deer in Kentucky feed with a "sentry" lookout over bait, man are they nervous!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2008 17:08:11 GMT -5
No Bait on Public Land. But seriously, when there are plenty of mast crops then there is actually no reason to bait. Call 10 acre food plots what you want. It is still a form of baiting. Why isn't hunting over acorns "baiting"? This is a slippery slope and it only leads to arguments between hunters...just what anti hunters would love to see.
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Post by Decatur on Dec 14, 2008 18:14:09 GMT -5
Because the acorns are naturally occurring, and bait piles are not.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2008 20:46:31 GMT -5
Because the acorns are naturally occurring, and bait piles are not. I am talking about the argument that food plots are baiting. Who planted the oak trees? Oaks are food plots. You see where this argument leads?
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Post by js2397 on Dec 15, 2008 9:20:39 GMT -5
What about when they harvest th ehundred acre field of corn and they spill a couple hundred pounds next to the woods when they are loading the semi? I think this would be OK.
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Post by trapperdave on Dec 15, 2008 10:12:09 GMT -5
ag spills are NOT considered baiting.....
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Post by indianahick on Dec 15, 2008 11:21:14 GMT -5
I don't believe that a human planted those 100 year old oaks or even the 20 year old oaks in the woods. I think that that came from a much higher source. That food plot was planted by some guy with a tractor, harrow, disk, seeder, with the intent of attracting deer to a place that he could kill them. Sorry but I don't see that as arguable, now if you are an atheist maybe you can and do. I am not.
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Post by Hawkeye on Dec 15, 2008 11:32:27 GMT -5
ag spills are NOT considered baiting..... Maybe if I talk to the guy that farms our land I can get him to accidentally spill a few hundred pounds of corn ,down in the back field near the creek,close to that natural deer crossing. Or maybe even miss the first few rows during the harvest. Ha Ha.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 19:43:10 GMT -5
I don't believe that a human planted those 100 year old oaks or even the 20 year old oaks in the woods. I think that that came from a much higher source. That food plot was planted by some guy with a tractor, harrow, disk, seeder, with the intent of attracting deer to a place that he could kill them. Sorry but I don't see that as arguable, now if you are an atheist maybe you can and do. I am not. Born again Christian here. It is possible, I guess, that the oaks you hunt are the offspring of virgin timber, but it is unlikely. There are virtually no stands of virgin timber left in Indiana, which would make it likely that we all hunt in forests that were either planted by man, or are the 2nd or 3rd generation of trees planted by man. Food plots are beneficial to more than just deer. All manner of beasts, hunted and non-hunted, reap benefit from them. To me, that is what separates them from the baiting argument. While bait piles are here today and gone tomorrow (and have been shown to potentially spread disease through deer and elk herds), food plots are pretty much permanent fixtures. Granted, they need to be replanted from time to time, but so do oaks...whether man plants them or God.
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Post by Decatur on Dec 16, 2008 0:13:16 GMT -5
Good post Metamora. Plus, I see food plants as bringing long term health to the deer heard that uses it, whereas bait piles are just a couple of meals. I talked to some deer hunters up around Wellston Michigan, where they have "deer feed" for sale at every gas station during the season. When I asked them how well does the baiting work, they all smiled and said that basically the "orange army idiots" are the only people who really try baiting, most guys prefer to "hunt" their deer.
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Post by tickman1961 on Dec 16, 2008 10:15:16 GMT -5
I see no reason for Indiana to approve baiting.
Also, I have no problem with folks baiting where it is legal. All forms of hunting have their place and it up to local governments to establish the rules.
Any legal means is the motto all hunters need to preach or they become the wedge for the divide and conquer anti hunting crowd.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 16, 2008 10:55:50 GMT -5
A lot of the present rules has to do with what is acceptable to the hunting population.
The over riding factor in that is deer herd health and that can change rules even if the majority of hunters doesn't want that particular rule change.
For the life of me I can not see the IDNR changng the baiting rule even if the herd gets way out of control. Too many problems with disease.
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Post by indianahick on Dec 16, 2008 14:13:34 GMT -5
Met. I doubt that where I hunted were replants. Hills, steep, steep, 30 to 45 degree slopes, run off cuts down thru them anywhere from 4 to 6 feet deep, at least 10 feet wide. Yes part of it has been cut at some time but most of it I would guess is free standing or growing or what ever. Now I can take you or tell you of a place that has a bunch of man planted trees down in that area. If you would like to google earth it. Used to be a great place to hunt.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Dec 16, 2008 15:20:17 GMT -5
Here's a Corrolary Question...
What is the difference between an Attractant (smelly somthing) and a Bait?
Yes, it's pretty obvious when there is a big-ol-pile of Bait, or a commercial product dumped onto the ground, but where is THAT line?
If I spray a smelly somthing onto a tree and a deer sniffs & licks it, is it a bait? (Honest Question...)
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Post by Hawkeye on Dec 16, 2008 15:28:51 GMT -5
Here's a Corrolary Question... What is the difference between an Attractant (smelly somthing) and a Bait? Yes, it's pretty obvious when there is a big-ol-pile of Bait, or a commercial product dumped onto the ground, but where is THAT line? If I spray a smelly somthing onto a tree and a deer sniffs & licks it, is it a bait? (Honest Question...) In Indiana land,Yes, that is bait.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Dec 16, 2008 15:43:58 GMT -5
Here's a Corrolary Question... What is the difference between an Attractant (smelly somthing) and a Bait? Yes, it's pretty obvious when there is a big-ol-pile of Bait, or a commercial product dumped onto the ground, but where is THAT line? If I spray a smelly somthing onto a tree and a deer sniffs & licks it, is it a bait? (Honest Question...) In Indiana land,Yes, that is bait. Estrus Urine is a bait? Then what scent attractant isn't a bait? This is actually as (very) confusing to me as the idea of stationary (stand/blind) hunting in general... The reg says: Baiting: Placing a food product in the field for consumption to attract wildlife to an area being hunted. Examples of baits include salt, mineral blocks, solid licks, grains, and liquids or powders spread on the ground for the purpose of being eaten by animals. Am I missing somthing?
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Post by tickman1961 on Dec 16, 2008 16:50:20 GMT -5
What makes you think estrus urine or dominate buck urines purpose is to be eaten by animals?
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Post by Old Ironsights on Dec 16, 2008 16:56:00 GMT -5
What makes you think estrus urine or dominate buck urines purpose is to be eaten by animals? I asked: "If I spray a smelly somthing onto a tree and a deer sniffs & licks it, is it a bait? (Honest Question...) " Hawkeye said: "In Indiana land,Yes, that is bait." Therefore, if I spray Estrus Urine (smelly stuff) on onto a tree and a deer sniffs & licks it, according to Hawkeye, Indiana consideres it Bait. These interpretive bits are what confuse me. One guy Or a CO) says Sprayed Smelly Stuff is a Bait if it gets licked, one thinks that interpretation is silly... (FWIW I understand the Feeder/CWD/disease transmission issue and agree with the ban of bait stations for that reason... it's the other stuff that puzzles me...)
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 16, 2008 17:06:56 GMT -5
What makes you think estrus urine or dominate buck urines purpose is to be eaten by animals? I asked: "If I spray a smelly somthing onto a tree and a deer sniffs & licks it, is it a bait? (Honest Question...) " Hawkeye said: "In Indiana land,Yes, that is bait." Therefore, if I spray Estrus Urine (smelly stuff) on onto a tree and a deer sniffs & licks it, according to Hawkeye, Indiana consideres it Bait. These interpretive bits are what confuse me. One guy Or a CO) says Sprayed Smelly Stuff is a Bait if it gets licked, one thinks that interpretation is silly... (FWIW I understand the Feeder/CWD/disease transmission issue and agree with the ban of bait stations for that reason... it's the other stuff that puzzles me...) I think "bait" is classified as being put into place as a consumable. I don't think "Sprayed Smelly Stuff" would be classified that way..... even if a deer did lick it. OIS, I think you are doing a BIG stretch.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Dec 16, 2008 17:14:39 GMT -5
I asked: "If I spray a smelly somthing onto a tree and a deer sniffs & licks it, is it a bait? (Honest Question...) " Hawkeye said: "In Indiana land,Yes, that is bait." Therefore, if I spray Estrus Urine (smelly stuff) on onto a tree and a deer sniffs & licks it, according to Hawkeye, Indiana consideres it Bait. These interpretive bits are what confuse me. One guy Or a CO) says Sprayed Smelly Stuff is a Bait if it gets licked, one thinks that interpretation is silly... (FWIW I understand the Feeder/CWD/disease transmission issue and agree with the ban of bait stations for that reason... it's the other stuff that puzzles me...) I think "bait" is classified as being put into place as a consumable. I don't think "Sprayed Smelly Stuff" would be classified that way..... even if a deer did lick it. OIS, I think you are doing a BIG stretch. Well I *also* think it's a stretch, but it's still a pertinate question since, obviously, someone agreed with the stretch... See, where I am coming from is there is no clear demarcation between what is and is not a bait if such confusion can and does exist. So sprayed Estrus Urine isn't a bait, but what about a strong smelling fruity sugar water? Really, where is the line? "Consumption" seems pretty vague and open to interpretation...
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