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Post by johnc911 on Dec 7, 2008 20:58:14 GMT -5
I guess i will just stick to discussing hunting. You guys are way out of touch on this one.
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Post by schall53 on Dec 8, 2008 9:13:03 GMT -5
John
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Post by dbd870 on Dec 8, 2008 9:25:49 GMT -5
Is it safe to assume you are both union workers?
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Dec 8, 2008 10:15:23 GMT -5
WOW, so I am to blame? No matter if a company makes an product that doesn't meet my needs I am to buy it? Why? To support a cost structure that can't be maintained? So every country should but things made locally? Well there goes our exports. Where is it written that you have a job for life? You need to change you skillsets to meet the current market demands. It the same for companies.
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Post by schall53 on Dec 8, 2008 13:30:18 GMT -5
No, I am not a union worker, I am a farmer and proud of it. I agree with alot of what you are saying. I just took exception to your term free market. In a free market free trade society, that we have now due to NAFTA, the higher wages our workers are getting will have to decrease or the low wages other countries work for will have to rise. That is just simple economics. Only way around it is to buy American.
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Post by huxbux on Dec 8, 2008 13:51:20 GMT -5
No, I am not a union worker, I am a farmer and proud of it. I agree with alot of what you are saying. I just took exception to your term free market. In a free market free trade society, that we have now due to NAFTA, the higher wages our workers are getting will have to decrease or the low wages other countries work for will have to rise. That is just simple economics. Only way around it is to buy American. And I have. They can't turn a profit when we buy their product. Now that they have successfully stolen my tax money, they've lost my business.
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Post by steiny on Dec 8, 2008 21:31:29 GMT -5
Here is something that hasn't been mentioned much. I suspect that if Uncle Sam gives the big three this big windfall of money, many of us taxpayers whom this does not benefit will become very resentful of this B.S. and refuse to buy those "American made" automobiles, no matter what they are selling for.
The consumer has had it up to their ears with this hand out program and won't support it. We would be much more supportive if these companies would get their act together and dig out on their own.
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Post by johnc911 on Dec 8, 2008 22:39:08 GMT -5
Guess nobody should go get a loan now either since they bailed the banks out.
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Post by cambygsp on Dec 9, 2008 6:20:42 GMT -5
Guess nobody should go get a loan now either since they bailed the banks out. I thought it was mortgages that were in trouble. AND, most won't qualify for mortgages now. With the new down payment requirements, to come up with 20% down on a $175,000.00 home will be difficult for most. That would be $35,000.00 cash!
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Post by swilk on Dec 9, 2008 7:58:07 GMT -5
FHA home loans are currently 3% down ......
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Post by huxbux on Dec 9, 2008 8:27:39 GMT -5
The big three automakers have been hanging on by their fingernails for years now. Even in a booming economy they were struggling. If Daimler hadn't bought into Chrysler, they'd already be gone. The UAW workers are simply in denial and they'll end up bankrupting their employers, bailout or no if they don't wake up and face reality. The world has changed, the market has changed, and the UAW refuses to take the necessary steps to allow their employer to remain competitive. It's a shame, I wish things could be the way they were 50 yrs. ago, we'd all be making more money regardless of what we do for a living, but they're not. Better wake up and smell the coffee before it's too late and while you still have a job. The whitetail deer survives and thrives because it's adaptable. We should take a lesson from that.
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Post by 76chevy on Dec 9, 2008 8:35:31 GMT -5
Toyota and honda understand the changing market and positioned themselves to outcompete domestic automakers. While GM and chysler are laying off and begging for a lifeline on capitol hill, toyota and honda are hiring and expanding right here in Indiana The big three automakers have been hanging on by their fingernails for years now. Even in a booming economy they were struggling. If Daimler hadn't bought into Chrysler, they'd already be gone. The UAW workers are simply in denial and they'll end up bankrupting their employers, bailout or no if they don't wake up and face reality. The world has changed, the market has changed, and the UAW refuses to take the necessary steps to allow their employer to remain competitive. It's a shame, I wish things could be the way they were 50 yrs. ago, we'd all be making more money regardless of what we do for a living, but they're not. Better wake up and smell the coffee before it's too late and while you still have a job. The whitetail deer survives and thrives because it's adaptable. We should take a lesson from that.
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Post by huxbux on Dec 9, 2008 8:37:55 GMT -5
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Post by 76chevy on Dec 9, 2008 8:43:32 GMT -5
very interesting read. hopefully one result of all of this is a weakening of the union hold so the american companies can compete once again. those line workers at GM making $75/hour have had it too good for too long
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Post by trapperdave on Dec 9, 2008 9:55:27 GMT -5
Even Toyota is starting to hurt. I work for a major supplier for them, we just got the news yesterday. Our plant is shutting down 12-18 till Jan 12 to mirror Toyotas revised shutdown. All toyota plants will be shut down those days as well.
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Post by johnc911 on Dec 9, 2008 10:28:24 GMT -5
You go dave. LOL. Like i said before these places do not have retiree costs as of yet. Just wait and see.
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Post by duff on Dec 9, 2008 11:55:12 GMT -5
Regardless of whos fault it is, if the big three do shutdown we all will be hurting a bit more. Those big wages support alot more then a few UAW workers. It will have long and far reaching effects. Good or bad, deserved or not it will hurt us all!
Not that I am for govt bailouts or loans what ever they call them.
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Post by huxbux on Dec 9, 2008 13:11:57 GMT -5
I agree that the shutting down of the big three will be disastrous. Problem is, the bailout proposals on the table will only prolong their collapse for a few months at best. Filing bankruptcy will allow them to reorganize by writing new contracts and give them a chance at becoming profitable again. It's the way the system is designed to work. If you've boarded an airplane in the last few years, chances are very high that you've flown with a company operating under bankruptcy proceedings. Most of them are still around and some have emerged from bankruptcy. The world doesn't end when it happens.
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Post by dbd870 on Dec 9, 2008 13:58:34 GMT -5
(As usual) I agree with Hux.
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Post by bschwein on Dec 9, 2008 14:19:04 GMT -5
I'm not so sure the bail out is a good idea either. They want more buisness? Where are all these battery, hydro, etc. vehicles at?
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