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Post by cday on Jan 19, 2006 3:24:40 GMT -5
hoyt1166 I truely believe CWD is a deer density problem more than anything. Yes it seems like it has been orginating from pen raised deer, but if you look at it these deer are actually in a high deer density state in a small area. Even the cases of CWD deer found in the wild are showing up in high deer density areas. It has always been said that if man can not control and maintain wildlife populations then diseasses and starvation would take out what was needed and then some. I believe CWD is one of those diseases nature uses to control cervid populations. Today there are more whitetail deer in this nation then there was before the settlers came to this country. So that is why we are seeing it more today. So I ain't going to say it is the the deer farmers fault that CWD exists. Even if you put humans in a small area with a high human density you would see some type of disease that would come about to reduce that density. I fyou are worried about CWD then shoot more deer.
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Post by hoyt1166 on Jan 19, 2006 9:54:19 GMT -5
hoyt1166 I truely believe CWD is a deer density problem more than anything. Yes it seems like it has been orginating from pen raised deer, but if you look at it these deer are actually in a high deer density state in a small area. Even the cases of CWD deer found in the wild are showing up in high deer density areas. It has always been said that if man can not control and maintain wildlife populations then diseasses and starvation would take out what was needed and then some. I believe CWD is one of those diseases nature uses to control cervid populations. Today there are more whitetail deer in this nation then there was before the settlers came to this country. So that is why we are seeing it more today. So I ain't going to say it is the the deer farmers fault that CWD exists. Even if you put humans in a small area with a high human density you would see some type of disease that would come about to reduce that density. I fyou are worried about CWD then shoot more deer. Interesting cday. Can you tell me where in the free-ranging wild there is a higher deer density than what you'd find in these deer farms? I'm willing to say that it is the deer farmers that are propogating the disease to a greater extent than what would happen in the wild. |
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Post by jkd on Jan 19, 2006 11:26:29 GMT -5
Cday,
Although I understand where you're coming from with the "live and let live" philosophy, there are limits on what we can all do on our own ground right now...
I would love to deer hunt in Indiana on my own land with my .270 or .223, as is legal in many other states, but I can't, because Indiana hunting regs don't permit it...
The deer season for wild deer in Indiana doesn't run until April either, but that's what HB 1349 would allow to be done on "animal hunting preserves"...
Cday - You're right about deer density being an issue related to CWD spread... one of the leading current theories is infection by saliva transfer during feeding and social contact, which during the winter are going to happen more often as the deer "yard" in more dense groups. I will say that although deer farms didn't start CWD, they certainly have had a role in it's spread... a disease that existed for decades only in Colorado and Wyoming suddenly within a couple of years makes it's way to Wisconsin, New York and Pennsylvania.... what - did those deer grow wings and fly in from Denver?
State bans on imports will never be totally effective as long as fenced hunting operations are allowed to charge $8,000-$20,000 for shooter bucks... big dollars make paying an import fine chump change, and illegal cervid importation is how you'll end up with CWD nationwide.
Remember too, that CWD takes a long time to develop in deer to the point where they show the effects of the disease, but they're carriers prior to that... and CWD is ALWAYS fatal... so in states like Wisconsin with lots of deer farms moving deer around and high wild deer densities, you've got a formula for a potential herd crash in 5-10 years if the spread is not controlled.
The answer to Hoyt's questions about similarity of wild vs. fenced density is an easy one... urban deer.... those communities that have established "no projectile" ordinances, thus making it impossible to hunt deer around towns, results in an inability to control urban herds... some of those deer are going to move in and out of rural areas, so if/when CWD gets into an urban herd, the disease will spread quickly.
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Jan 19, 2006 18:56:36 GMT -5
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Post by solohunter on Jan 19, 2006 19:12:13 GMT -5
I contacted my rep. Last year he took the time to call me at home, we spoke for 45mins. We will see what happens now.
Solohunter
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Post by bullwinkle on Jan 19, 2006 21:32:03 GMT -5
hoyt1166 I truely believe CWD is a deer density problem more than anything. Yes it seems like it has been orginating from pen raised deer, but if you look at it these deer are actually in a high deer density state in a small area. Even the cases of CWD deer found in the wild are showing up in high deer density areas. It has always been said that if man can not control and maintain wildlife populations then diseasses and starvation would take out what was needed and then some. I believe CWD is one of those diseases nature uses to control cervid populations. Today there are more whitetail deer in this nation then there was before the settlers came to this country. So that is why we are seeing it more today. So I ain't going to say it is the the deer farmers fault that CWD exists. Even if you put humans in a small area with a high human density you would see some type of disease that would come about to reduce that density. I fyou are worried about CWD then shoot more deer. You make the point of why we should not keep deer and wildlife in capitivity. The only known case of CWD outside North America is in Korea. It came from a cative Elk Farm. That should tell you something. |
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Post by cday on Jan 20, 2006 4:13:31 GMT -5
Biologist reported in wild free roaming deer that got infected with the CWD the deer density in that region was estimated at or above 100 deer per square mile. Now that is a very high deer density. Also if I recall their was a urban area with a very high deer density that had wild free roaming deer with CWD.
My theory is CWD is nothing new and has always been around as long as cervids have roamed the earth. But it is alot easy to spot and identify in pen raised animals. Also I believe it is already in every state it just has not been discovered yet but will in time with all of the testing. Even in the hot zone of Wisconsin less that 5% of the deer taken out were infected with CWD. So even states conducting testing of deer harvested by hunters every year, the number of deer tested is a very small percentage. Since CWD kills deer that are infected how many die each year already that are never discovered since hunters are mainly only out for at 1/3 of the year. Also from my understanding of testing down this way were they take brain tissue samples the samples have to be taken with in 24 hours to determine anything.
Myself CWD is just another one of those issues that has gotten blow out of portion. Heck it is proven the whitetail deer has adapted and overcome just about everytime. So they will do the same with this as well. Darwin's theory the strong will survive and carrying on.
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Post by lymanl3 on Jan 22, 2006 12:35:55 GMT -5
Curious what types of responses everyone has been getting from rep's??
Lyman
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Post by hoyt1166 on Jan 22, 2006 12:38:57 GMT -5
With the exception of the guy that sponsored the bill, I've gotten every other rep to reply that they would not support the bill. So, that was 4 against the bill and one for it.
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idhmc
Full Member
Posts: 62
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Post by idhmc on Jan 25, 2006 11:20:45 GMT -5
Hoyt, or anyone else with a copy of the Bellar video...
is there any way I could get a copy of that video. I willing to pay for the time and trouble.
Thanks
Gary
Please e-mail me at
wallhangerhank_95@yahoo.com
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Post by hoyt1166 on Jan 26, 2006 20:23:41 GMT -5
idhmc, Sorry it's been awhile. Been out of town on business. Will get your info and get you a copy.
hoyt
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Post by jkd on Feb 1, 2006 12:41:25 GMT -5
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Post by lymanl3 on Feb 1, 2006 21:59:38 GMT -5
I have been getting some positive responses..heres one from my district in New Albany IN,
Lyman, you had e-mailed me about your opposition to HB1349, and I too oppose this unfair practise of “canned” hunts.
Connie W. Sipes
State Senator
District 46
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Post by kevin1 on Feb 8, 2006 10:18:56 GMT -5
I have been getting some positive responses..heres one from my district in New Albany IN, Lyman, you had e-mailed me about your opposition to HB1349, and I too oppose this unfair practise of “canned” hunts. Connie W. Sipes State Senator District 46 Lyman , is that the same Connie "Two Faced" Sipes who sponsored this ? www.in.gov/legislative/bills/2006/IN/IN0261.1.htmlHow would the deer procurers sell their sordid business if their customers can't fire a projectile within 200 yards of a dwelling ? Be careful about believing what comes out of a polititian's mouth , it's usually the same thing that comes out of their other end . |
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