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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 2, 2008 8:11:05 GMT -5
Construction is at an all time high here..... int he last couple years we have built 2 new surgery centers.... and are building a new hospital...... we have built a new Walmart with a small chain mall attached to it.... and a few other department stores as well...... if ya work in Construction..... move to Terre Haute.... because we have more of it than the locals can handle. I think that commercial construction and residential construction are on opposite sides of the coin right now. I think that you are right. In Evansville they are throwing up retail stores and malls right and left. A couple new motels too. Even quaint little Newburgh is getting a Super WalMart. I just scratch my head and ask myself how can we support all of that? But, I guess better minds than mine know what they are doing.
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Post by swilk on Apr 2, 2008 8:24:24 GMT -5
Same thing in Vincennes.
They just built a new Kohls. They are talking of a new Target. A Holiday Inn Express is almost complete. The University is building a new Center for Applied Technology building and completely renovating one residence hall.
In the residential market things are at a crawl. Few new houses and fewer real estate transactions. I think I heard someone say that between July and December of 2007 there were only 3 houses priced over $190,000 sold in the Vincennes area. There are dozens on the market.
The one market that is booming as of late is disaster recovery. I have a friend who owns a disaster recovery construction company (they do flood/fire/storm repair) and they have been up to their ears drying out basements for the last few weeks.
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Post by steiny on Apr 2, 2008 20:34:37 GMT -5
The residential construction market is in the dumps, true ... but residential construction has never provided many decent jobs. Sure it provides a bunch of jobs, but they are all average pay, no benefit, no safety, get in, get out deals. The real money in construction is industrial / commercial and we are starving for drug free, skilled, hard workers .... and we pay very well.
Why won't anybody do this work? There is a huge shortage of skilled industrial tradespeople.
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Post by raporter on Apr 2, 2008 21:26:18 GMT -5
The residential construction market is in the dumps, true ... but residential construction has never provided many decent jobs. Sure it provides a bunch of jobs, but they are all average pay, no benefit, no safety, get in, get out deals. The real money in construction is industrial / commercial and we are starving for drug free, skilled, hard workers .... and we pay very well. Why won't anybody do this work? There is a huge shortage of skilled industrial tradespeople. Steiny after the "glowing" report on the Indy school system you can see why there are not enough of that kind of worker around. I would hate to be a parent in that area. Could it have something to do with the constant re-electing of a bunch of loser to run the system have anything to do with it?
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Post by ihunt2liv on Apr 3, 2008 8:12:13 GMT -5
I issue all a challenge. Take a drive to these commercial construction sites that you use to judge the job market in your areas. Talk to the site manager and ask them how much labor is being acquired locally and how much is from out of state contractors. I have been watching a new ethanhol plant being built over the past year. It is all out of state. They have huge lot of trailer housing for all of these people. The local economy benefits very little these type of operations. Don't be fooled into thinking that there is a skilled tradesmen shortage. If anything its the opposite. One thing is none of the contractors can afford to use union scale workers because the out of state contractors bid the job so much lower. Thats why your beloved Walmarts are the only place the local economy can afford to shop at anymore. Also, union trades are the only place where these guys can get benefits, good insurance, 401k, and a pension. Try getting these things from a non-union outfit. We need to keep these jobs in Indiana.
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Post by steiny on Apr 3, 2008 21:05:40 GMT -5
ihunt2liv - Obviously you are not in the business, and don't know much about it. If local folks were available to build those ethanol plants, they would get hired, problem is, they aren't available. Union -vs- non union, there isn't a nickles worth of difference between the pay and benefits. If you can do the job, you're gonna get paid well.
Out of state guys are coming to do that work because the locals can't man the job and meet the schedule. Those out of state guys are making big wages, lots of overtime, and generally cutting a fat hog in the azz. The money is there for anyone willing to work for it.
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Post by greyhair on Apr 4, 2008 5:34:43 GMT -5
Here are some facts - the economy is at HUGE risk right now for three reasons - first because Americans have the lowest savings rate of any industrial country - we just don't save enough. Second because the stock market is being driven by by people sitting at their computers placing bets all day instead of by responsible investors, and third because our national debt has grown to to a size that is unreal and China holds most of the paper.
Also, wages are being depressed by the influx of cheap south of the border labor. If you don't see it you ain't paying attention. This includes factory and construction jobs both.
Finally if you think there is no difference between between union and non-union pay and benefits, I can assure you that is not true. I make my living in the Union construction industry and there is a huge difference, as well as in the quality of the work done. I was a construction inspector for many years and have seen both sides, the non-union contractors always had way more issues. Cut corners on wages, cut corners on materials too.
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Post by duff on Apr 4, 2008 7:08:28 GMT -5
Greyhair, where did you get your facts? In your first paragraph.
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Post by greyhair on Apr 4, 2008 18:24:50 GMT -5
Excuse me - I should have said my opinions, but I believe them to be correct.
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Post by Sleazy E on Apr 6, 2008 11:07:17 GMT -5
Greyhair...... Let me tell you what the two unions I was in did for me....
First was the UAW..... They managed to ensure that I got laid off 9 times in a year and half... one of those lay offs stretching form Thanksgiving to X-mas...... They also managed to negotiate a better pay rate while sacrificing our very nice attendance policy and picking up a policy of you miss 3 days in 6 months and you are fired... no drs. excuses accepted.... Then when they decided they did not like the attendance policy (to late) and threatened to strike to have it changed.. (once GMAC and Ford caught wind and told them to fix it or lose their business).. they just fired everyone and closed the plant.
Then there was the other Union that was taking dues from me when I worked at another factory.... they could not even manage to make the factory honor a promise to me on the hours I would be working... As a matter of fact it was the union that prevented it... because I did not have seniority.... I was supposed to be on an hour night shift in one department...(which I had in writing) but someone decided they wanted that position so I was forced in to his place working 12 hour day shifts that prevented me from going to class.... I tried to work with them.. I wrote letters and in the end I had to quit because I could not be two places at once.....
So yeah unions might give ya some more money in your pocket... but they take it all back out in dues.... then they provide you with more of a hindrance than any type of help... when you need them they are worthless.... it is not like the days when the unions had some power and cared about every person working in them.....
It has been my experience that they are just another money hungry machine taking from the common man as much as they can with a promise of something better.... A promise that is never fulfilled.
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Post by trapperdave on Apr 6, 2008 17:06:42 GMT -5
thats been my union experiances as well. I was in the UAW, that company is now in Mexico.
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Post by huxbux on Apr 6, 2008 21:22:14 GMT -5
It has been my experience that they are just another money hungry machine taking from the common man as much as they can with a promise of something better.... A promise that is never fulfilled. Does that sound anything like another much-loved entity we all know?
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Apr 7, 2008 9:58:19 GMT -5
I think it depends on where you are and what you do. Overall (nationally) the economy is doing fine, but that doesn't mean locally that is the case. DITTO!
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Post by 76chevy on Apr 7, 2008 12:47:56 GMT -5
...much better off than we were 4 years ago... So I say what ever has been done for the economy so far (the Bush years) they need to keep doing it. Yeah the consumer price index is up, unemployment is up, home foreclosures are up, fuel costs are up. And guess what REAL WAGES (ie purchasing power) are down! Bush has been a total failure on a number of issues, the economy just being one. His legacy will put him at the bottom of the list of our presidents.
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Post by 76chevy on Apr 7, 2008 12:51:26 GMT -5
we have built a new Walmart with a small chain mall attached to it.... and a few other department stores as well...... That's great, just what the state of IN needs more low paying retail jobs
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Post by 76chevy on Apr 7, 2008 12:52:42 GMT -5
What I am afraid of is the "trickle" effect that may take another few years to completely play out. With fuel prices so high EVERYTHING will become much more expensive over the next few years. Our inflation rate will balloon but salaries will remain the same. We may not be in a true recession right now but I think we will be within the next few years. We are already seeing this, consumer spending is down across all income levels!
Also wages have not kept pace with inflation for the past few years so overall most peoples purchaing power has been reduced and this along with shaky consumer confidence has led to their reduced consumption of goods and services
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Post by Sleazy E on Apr 7, 2008 16:28:16 GMT -5
we have built a new Walmart with a small chain mall attached to it.... and a few other department stores as well...... That's great, just what the state of IN needs more low paying retail jobsHmmmm one post talking about unemployment being up... then the next complaining about new low income jobs being offered.... a job is a job... and if unemployment is that bad than you would think people would be happy to have any job they could get. There is not a problem with jobs in our area.... The classifieds are full of them... a few factories are laying off... but that is common place for every factory. If you know people looking for work then send them here... we have plenty of low paying job that can be filled... and that is better than riding welfare. Or better yet... lets take these welfare cases and force them to take the low paying jobs... and then that frees up money for our government to invest back in to the economy and pay off some of the deficit.... That should boost the economy and help out the state of things.
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Post by Hoosier Hunter on Apr 7, 2008 16:58:46 GMT -5
More auctions in Indiana from plant closures than ever.
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Post by hunter480 on Apr 7, 2008 17:17:05 GMT -5
...much better off than we were 4 years ago... So I say what ever has been done for the economy so far (the Bush years) they need to keep doing it. Yeah the consumer price index is up, unemployment is up, home foreclosures are up, fuel costs are up. And guess what REAL WAGES (ie purchasing power) are down! Bush has been a total failure on a number of issues, the economy just being one. His legacy will put him at the bottom of the list of our presidents. Bush had nothing to do with the cheap credit lenders were pushing on people who really shouldn`t have been able to qualify anyway. So the numbers of foreclosures can`t be pushed of on this administration. Same for fuel costs. It appears that you may subscribe to the same thinking that said Bush was responsible for 9-11, the hurricanes, and everything else that ever went wrong during his presidency. I certainly don`t agree with everything he`s done during his time in the White House, but he`s not the complete flop you would like to portray him as either.
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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 7, 2008 17:31:57 GMT -5
...much better off than we were 4 years ago... So I say what ever has been done for the economy so far (the Bush years) they need to keep doing it. Yeah the consumer price index is up, unemployment is up, home foreclosures are up, fuel costs are up. And guess what REAL WAGES (ie purchasing power) are down! Unemployment in Indiana is 4.6 percent. That is lowest of all of the midwest states. He is really going to have to hurry to catch Carter or a number of other presidents - Including Bill Clinton who is barely tweaking out a bit better than Dubya. See the President's misery Index... www.miseryindex.us/indexbypresident.aspMaybe another "myth" ?
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