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Post by duff on May 5, 2007 2:39:44 GMT -5
Execution is more expensive BECAUSE of the length of the process and the additional court time it inevetably involves. I have a rather od/different way of looking at the death penalty. I totally oppose it for first-time offenders - regardless of the "heinousness" of the crime - and oppose it for reasons mentioned. Essentially, anybody can get set up, freak out, manifest a genuine treatable mental illness, etc. One incident does not make a person a perpetual danger to society, and if, in the case of a setup/false arrest/false ID, executing an innocent is absolutely unacceptable. OTOH, I'm 100% for the immediate execution of any and all recidivist violent offenders. By their multiple actions and multiple convictions they have PROVEN themselves to be incorrigible, perpetual cancers on the body politic and should be excised. People don't get set up multiple times. People with treatable/treated illnesses don't reoffend. That's not to say that 1st time offenders shouldn't be punished - even severely - but if we were to get rid of all the recividists there would be plenty of room/money to attempt to treat/rehabilitate them, rather than just train them to BECOME recidivists. I don't agree, if the crime was bad enough to have the death penalty tried then by god they deserved it. I know of people who have served on jury for a death penalty case, all have ended in life, or life without parole. A guy I work with used to transport criminals back to Indiana he gave me some stories that sent chills down my spine and none got the death penalty. I am talking some serious crimes to defenseless people young and old. I don't care if it is the first or last time some just need to fry.
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Post by Old Ironsights on May 5, 2007 15:53:58 GMT -5
But some don't... because they didn't do it. We are seeing more and more innocent people being released now because the DNA evidence - that was not technologically useable when they were convicted - has proven that they DIDN'T DO IT.
Executing an innocent person is absolutely unacceptable. My "plan" mitigates that while getting rid of the genuine cancers.
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Post by duff on May 5, 2007 16:47:39 GMT -5
That is my point, even though these terrible crimes were comitted resulting in facing the death penality very few actually get sentensed to death. Your tool is already in practice, trial by jury. It is easy to sit and say I would fry them all until you have to sit and deliver your verdict. If a jury can be convinced they need to die for their crimes then I am fine with that decision. The appeals will keep them around to prove their innocence.
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Post by Old Ironsights on May 5, 2007 16:56:10 GMT -5
But my point is that all of that "appeals" crap is expensive, and none of that is necessary.
Simply never execute a First Timer. Execute ALL violent recividists.
It's like brain cancer. Remove the tumor that won't respond to therapy, but don't start cutting immediately.
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Post by kevin1 on May 5, 2007 17:25:37 GMT -5
I support the death penalty 100%, execution of innocents is sufficiently rare that it's not even a factor anymore. If getting one innocent in 10,00 keeps 9,999 violent a-holes off the streets that's a risk we should be prepared to take. This is the age of CSI, by the time you get to court it's 99% certain that you did what you're accused of. Take one year to adjudicate ONE appeal, you fail that you fry. Cost would no longer be an issue, and really never should have been. Guilt is the only issue.
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Post by duff on May 5, 2007 18:04:58 GMT -5
But my point is that all of that "appeals" crap is expensive, and none of that is necessary. Simply never execute a First Timer. Execute ALL violent recividists. It's like brain cancer. Remove the tumor that won't respond to therapy, but don't start cutting immediately. Appeals are not limited to death penalty, plenty of them occur for lower sentensings.
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Post by Hawkeye on May 5, 2007 19:33:20 GMT -5
I can see not putting someone to death for a crime of passion (heat of the moment) argument. Then again take some one like Son of Sam, Dalmer, Bundy, serial murderers, then the death penalty should take precedence. I believe that the anti's are correct that it costs more to kill a murderer than give them life sentences. Both for the convicted and the states. Lawyers, fees and other legal fees. Maybe though in the long run it would be better to build more of the single, windowless 7 X 9 foot cell prisons and keep them caged for 23 hours a day and only showers twice a week. Separate exercise areas. I agree except no showers or exercise!
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Post by tmarsh83 on May 5, 2007 20:21:03 GMT -5
With the advances in DNA evidence, anyone convicted these days should not have the lengthy appeal process that was in place years ago.
I don't have pity for these people, I don't care about them, and it is my personal opinion that by taking the life of another person, (or serial rapists, which is actually worse) you have just forfieted any and all rights you had as a human being. You immediatly went to the bottom of the list, right below Micheal Moore, Osama, and a cockroach.
Executions aren't expensive. A good solid nylon braided rope in 3/4 inch is no more than a dollar a foot. Twenty bucks, and I should be able to take care of deathrow in the entire state of Indiana. Nylon rope is pretty tough stuff.
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Post by Old Ironsights on May 5, 2007 21:04:25 GMT -5
...Executions aren't expensive. A good solid nylon braided rope in 3/4 inch is no more than a dollar a foot. Twenty bucks, and I should be able to take care of deathrow in the entire state of Indiana. Nylon rope is pretty tough stuff. Obviously you've never been in the Navy... Nylon stretches too much. You want Hemp - or Sisal - but Hemp is best. Try to stretch someone's neck with nylon and you could very well get bounce & strangulation. You want basal skull fracture. Only way to get that is with no stretch.
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Post by tmarsh83 on May 5, 2007 21:09:37 GMT -5
You are assuming I care about avoiding cruel and unusual...
Hemp and sisal are tough to work with, and just not comfortable on my hands...
Nylon is easy to work with...
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Post by dec on May 7, 2007 11:08:52 GMT -5
I like the bullet to the head approach. The rope thing (hemp or nylon is fine) works well too.
I have no pitty on these people. I have no time to hear how life in a prison cell is worse or costs less then death.
I say give them a year or two to run their appeals dry then execute every last one of them.
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