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Post by greghopper on Jan 20, 2020 7:59:44 GMT -5
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Post by firstwd on Jan 20, 2020 8:22:57 GMT -5
I'm not certain "game changer" is completely correct, but I can see where this could open up muzzleloader hunting to a lot of people uncomfortable with traditional muzzleloading methods.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 8:40:12 GMT -5
Great concept and it turns it into a shotgun like muzzleloader.
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Post by jjas on Jan 20, 2020 8:58:53 GMT -5
I agree the concept is interesting, but shooting it won't be cheap.
The bullets they recommend run about $1.65 each @ Cabelas. The msrp for the "firestick" powder charges is $2.69 each. That's $4.34 per shot (not including the primer).
The msrp on the rifles range from $499-$699.
It will be interesting to see what "real world" pricing is on the rifles, etc. and if people will be willing to put their present rifles aside to try an all new muzzleloading "system".
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Post by esshup on Jan 20, 2020 9:38:58 GMT -5
To me who admittedly is an accuracy nut, this brings up one big question. How accurate is it, and how consistent is the accuracy? Not being able to vary the powder charge to me is a negative, bringing up the same problems rimfire rifles have, but only worse. If the gun isn't accurate you have no other ammo manufacturers to turn to for different loads to try.
In my opinion, the game changer in the muzzleloading world happened back in late 2000 when Savage introduced the first mass production smokeless muzzleloader. You could use either smokeless rifle powder, loose black powder, black powder substitutes or pyrodex pellets.
I shied away from muzzleloaders until then, not wanting to have to clean the gun after every time I shot the gun. Now with the aftermarket .45 caliber barrels it has turned the muzzleloading hunting world on it's ear; in a capable shooters hands it is a legitimate 400 yard hunting tool.
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Post by js2397 on Jan 20, 2020 9:45:48 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see if they are legal to use during muzzleloader season.
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Post by steiny on Jan 20, 2020 9:55:48 GMT -5
Not sure you could actually call that a "muzzle loader" as the charge is loaded from the breech. I don't think it should be legal during the primitive weapons / muzzle loader season. At some point I wish hunters would quit looking for new ways to make this great sport a little bit easier and be content with some challenges.
What's next... legalization of the Air bow gun during archery season?
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Post by esshup on Jan 20, 2020 9:56:23 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see if they are legal to use during muzzleloader season. Should be, the projectile is still loaded from the muzzle.
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Post by jjas on Jan 20, 2020 10:09:43 GMT -5
Not sure you could actually call that a "muzzle loader" as the charge is loaded from the breech. I don't think it should be legal during the primitive weapons / muzzle loader season. At some point I wish hunters would quit looking for new ways to make this great sport a little bit easier and be content with some challenges. What's next... legalization of the Air bow gun during archery season? I don't know if it's as much about making things easier as it is a way to try and sell something new to an ever shrinking market.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 20, 2020 10:11:07 GMT -5
I’m with Steiny in this one. Loading the powder from the breech will muddy the waters on “muzzle loading”.
I haven’t used my TC Omega in at least ten years but if I was going to go with this new “muzzleloader” I’d want iron clad assurance from the DNR that it was muzzleloader season legal.
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Post by js2397 on Jan 20, 2020 10:20:34 GMT -5
This is what the hunting guide says:
A muzzleloading firearm must be capable of being loaded from only the muzzle.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 20, 2020 10:42:43 GMT -5
This is what the hunting guide says: A muzzleloading firearm must be capable of being loaded from only the muzzle. You can put powder in from the bottom now on some you just got to take out the breech plug and do some loading in different way but it possible. Don’t really see this being illegal.... guess time will tell!
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Post by cedarthicket on Jan 20, 2020 10:46:13 GMT -5
This is what the hunting guide says: A muzzleloading firearm must be capable of being loaded from only the muzzle. I agree with you. The powder CHARGE as well as the bullet is vital to MUZZLE loading the rifle. What is next, designing a rifle utilizing revolver cylinders for those NEEDED quick follow-up shots?
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Post by medic22 on Jan 20, 2020 11:41:13 GMT -5
I guess I dont understand how much of a game changer this is if you still have to load the bullet from the muzzle.
Loading powder is the easiest part.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 20, 2020 11:58:30 GMT -5
Should be easily legal in at least Gun season in Indiana IMO
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Post by jjas on Jan 20, 2020 12:02:43 GMT -5
I guess I dont understand how much of a game changer this is if you still have to load the bullet from the muzzle. Loading powder is the easiest part. That's the only part about this whole deal that I find somewhat appealing. You can open the action and remove the powder charge.
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Post by stevein on Jan 20, 2020 13:00:51 GMT -5
Nothing new. It did not catch on in the late 1800s. Harry Pope's rifles loaded the bullet from the muzzle, the primed/powdered case from the breech. It may be legal in the firearms season if the "case" is not too long. I hunt with traditional muzzle loaders. I do not care what anyone sharing the woods with me uses in ML season as long as it is legal. I do not believe this meets the definition of a muzzle loader. Does this mean that the Ferguson and Halls are legal now too? How about the Burnsides, Smith's and early Sharps while we are at it? What if I take an old Trapdoor or Rolling Block and load a charged case from the breech and push the bullet in from the muzzle? Just buy a CVA 45-70 and load it this way. Save $$$ sending it out to have a breechplug installed. Instead of a bullet why not an arrow? Should be able to get at least a 1000fps out of it.
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Post by stevein on Jan 20, 2020 13:54:32 GMT -5
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Post by greghopper on Jan 20, 2020 19:22:08 GMT -5
CURRENT Indiana Administrative Code 312 IAC 9-3-3 Equipment for deer hunting
312 IAC 9-3-3 Equipment for deer hunting
(3) A muzzleloading long gun must be .44 caliber or larger, loaded with a bullet at least three hundred fifty-seven thousandths (.357) inch or larger. A muzzleloading handgun must be single shot, .50 caliber or larger, loaded with bullets at least .44 caliber and have a barrel at least twelve (12) inches long. The length of a muzzleloading handgun barrel is determined by measuring from the base of the breech plug, excluding tangs and other projections, to the end of the barrel, including the muzzle crown. A muzzleloading gun must be capable of being loaded only from the muzzle, including both powder and bullet.
I wonder where the current removal Breech plug muzzleloading long gun falls in the code?
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Post by js2397 on Jan 20, 2020 19:33:34 GMT -5
I wonder where the current removal Breech plug muzzleloading long gun falls in the code? I would assume the same as a removable plug for a shotgun.
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