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Post by HighCotton on Dec 8, 2019 15:23:24 GMT -5
Initially, esshup, You got me pondering this question. Consistent head shots on squirrels out to 25 yards and beyond?? And then I remembered that others on here have shot quite well with their pistols, also. I'm dialing in my Ruger Mark IV Lite. Currently I'm having trouble with the IMGUR site so I'll post a pic later. esshup: I see your accuracy out to 25 yards and that's pretty impressive to me. I've heard others, including my late great uncle, that were "consistent" with head shots on a squirrel out to 50 yards or so (he had an old High Standard also). I've topped my Ruger with one of Sig Sauer's Romeo5 red dots. I've shot tons of different ammo and have settled on a few CCI rounds. At 10 and 15 yards on a simple shelf as a rest, I'm popping <1" groups with an occasional flyer out of 10 rounds. At 25 yards, I can barely keep my group under 2 inches. The Lite has a barrel length of 4.4 inches. I've wondered if that factors into the equation?! Gun weight? Trigger pull? Just a lot of thoughts here as I work on getting everything I can out of this gun...
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Post by jjas on Dec 8, 2019 17:02:08 GMT -5
The barrel in the lite series of pistols is pretty thin, perhaps it's heating up with just a few shots enough to open the groups?
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Post by kicker on Dec 8, 2019 22:31:28 GMT -5
A website with huge amount of information is www.rimfirecentral.com. I am not familiar with the lite series. However, you may try some sub sonic ammunition. If your gun will cycle it, I have found that in my smith & wesson 41 I get the best consistent grouping @ 25 yds with RWS SUB SONIC.
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Post by esshup on Dec 8, 2019 22:59:40 GMT -5
HC, this is a 7 1/4" fluted barrel, High Standard Supermatic Trophy; the trigger pull is adjustable via a screw in the back of the frame - no need to remove the grips. I have no idea on the size of the Red Dot but I do know that by reducing the intensity the dot is smaller in size (at least to these eyes). I would be willing to bet that I could be more accurate with it if it had a scope on it. To shoot the squirrels and that paper plate, I was resting the gun against a door frame and I was standing. There is no magnification with that Red Dot. FWIW, when I ran the serial number on the gun it was made in 1968, and when I talked to Aimpoint they asked for the serial number of the sight. It too was made in 1968. I had no idea they made them back then!!
For a point of reference, I have tried CCI Blazer ammo in my carbon fiber wrapped Volquartsen barrel on my 10/22 and I have found that they are close accuracy wise to the Ely Tenex Red Box ammo. I have sorted the CCI Blazer ammo by rim thickness and by doing that they are just as good or better accuracy wise as the Red Box Ely. I shot both the Ely Pistol ammo and the CCI Blazer ammo in this pistol and cannot see any difference in accuracy, and I didn't sort the CCI by rim thickness for that test. Shooting it off of sandbags, in calm wind with CCI Blazer ammo, it kept 8 of 10 shots in a paper plate at 100 yds. The trigger IS set light, but I haven't put my trigger pull gauge on it to see how light. The guy I bought it from said he shot it in competition, and had shot in the 290's with it. I have no idea what competition he was shooting - didn't ask.
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Post by HighCotton on Dec 9, 2019 10:13:55 GMT -5
The barrel in the lite series of pistols is pretty thin, perhaps it's heating up with just a few shots enough to open the groups? You could be right. A thin and somewhat short barrel probably doesn't help my cause.
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Post by HighCotton on Dec 9, 2019 10:16:45 GMT -5
HC, this is a 7 1/4" fluted barrel, High Standard Supermatic Trophy; the trigger pull is adjustable via a screw in the back of the frame - no need to remove the grips. I have no idea on the size of the Red Dot but I do know that by reducing the intensity the dot is smaller in size (at least to these eyes). I would be willing to bet that I could be more accurate with it if it had a scope on it. To shoot the squirrels and that paper plate, I was resting the gun against a door frame and I was standing. There is no magnification with that Red Dot. FWIW, when I ran the serial number on the gun it was made in 1968, and when I talked to Aimpoint they asked for the serial number of the sight. It too was made in 1968. I had no idea they made them back then!! For a point of reference, I have tried CCI Blazer ammo in my carbon fiber wrapped Volquartsen barrel on my 10/22 and I have found that they are close accuracy wise to the Ely Tenex Red Box ammo. I have sorted the CCI Blazer ammo by rim thickness and by doing that they are just as good or better accuracy wise as the Red Box Ely. I shot both the Ely Pistol ammo and the CCI Blazer ammo in this pistol and cannot see any difference in accuracy, and I didn't sort the CCI by rim thickness for that test. Shooting it off of sandbags, in calm wind with CCI Blazer ammo, it kept 8 of 10 shots in a paper plate at 100 yds. The trigger IS set light, but I haven't put my trigger pull gauge on it to see how light. The guy I bought it from said he shot it in competition, and had shot in the 290's with it. I have no idea what competition he was shooting - didn't ask. Very interesting history there. I like the idea of reducing my red dot intensity. I'll give that one a try and see if I get any improvement.
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Post by moose1am on Dec 10, 2019 12:07:47 GMT -5
Know where your bullets will land if you miss and are aiming at a squirrel up in a tree. Bullets can fly for a mile if you miss the target and are shooting up into the air.
I personally would not shoot a 22 LR at a squirrel up in a tree. I might shoot a squirrel that's running around on the ground. Now if there is a hill on the other side of a tree that would absorb the bullet that might be ok. Like a smaller tree down in a deep valley with a hill as your backdrop behind the tree. I have a woods like that where I use to hunt squirrels when I was younger.
But shooting a gun into the air is not something I would encourage anyone to do. SAFETY first.
Pistols are not nearly as accurate as a rifle. I shoot a Ruger 10/22 Carbine Rifle in 22 caliber.
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Post by esshup on Dec 10, 2019 12:37:36 GMT -5
Moose1am, all the squirrels that I shot with the pistol were just like you described, shooting down from a higher position. BUT I do hunt squirrels with .22 and .17 caliber rifles and they are in a tree. Can you provide some links to data that shows how much property damage and/or people are struck per year by falling rimfire bullets?
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Post by beermaker on Dec 10, 2019 18:18:00 GMT -5
Moose1am, all the squirrels that I shot with the pistol were just like you described, shooting down from a higher position. BUT I do hunt squirrels with .22 and .17 caliber rifles and they are in a tree. Can you provide some links to data that shows how much property damage and/or people are struck per year by falling rimfire bullets? I'm going to take a wild, but fairly confident, guess that the .22 is the most popular caliber of choice for squirrel hunting. And, for conversation purposes, the most popular caliber period. I haven't researched it, but sounds likely to me. With that being said, I have never heard of personal injury or property damage from said caliber.
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Post by HighCotton on Dec 10, 2019 19:15:55 GMT -5
I finally got my Imgur account back. Here is a pic of shots with the Ruger Lite. My group really opens up out to 25 yards:
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Post by HighCotton on Dec 10, 2019 19:33:40 GMT -5
So since I feel I'm a bit limited to about 15 yards at the moment for head shots with the Ruger Lite pistol, I decided to switch scopes on my CZ 452 Mannlicher and see if I could improve my accuracy with her. I now have it topped with my Vortex Crossfire II BDC in 2-7x32. I know its not the coolest look on this gun, but I'm looking for accuracy. The range limits me to 25 yards which is were I shot all of these groups. I tried half a dozen different ammo sorts and found that nothing could touch the CCI Standard Velocity 40 grain LRN for accuracy. I stuck with this and then began to dial her in. I started on the middle target which was a bit low and right. I worked the point of impact upwards and then to the left and she found a pretty good center. All of this was with the fore end resting on a Caldwell bag. From here I shot a 10 shot group on the lower left target. Made a few more fine adjustments and shot the lower right target. Centers of the ten shot groups can be covered with a dime! Mostly, I was pleasantly surprised with how well the old tried and true CCI Standards were grouping. I've been playing with a bunch of High Velocity and/or Hollow Points. Now I'm rethinking. Probably going to stick with this for awhile. Hopefully, better accuracy will afford me more head shots, providing the kill. Now I just need to check her out at 50 yards, sometime in the future.
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Post by esshup on Dec 10, 2019 20:48:14 GMT -5
I've always had better accuracy with the std velocity .22lr than the faster ones. Our ammo of choice for practice when I was on the rifle team was Winchester T-22 Wildcats.
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Post by HillBillyJeff on Dec 11, 2019 17:34:07 GMT -5
Know where your bullets will land if you miss and are aiming at a squirrel up in a tree. Bullets can fly for a mile if you miss the target and are shooting up into the air. I personally would not shoot a 22 LR at a squirrel up in a tree. I might shoot a squirrel that's running around on the ground. Now if there is a hill on the other side of a tree that would absorb the bullet that might be ok. Like a smaller tree down in a deep valley with a hill as your backdrop behind the tree. I have a woods like that where I use to hunt squirrels when I was younger. But shooting a gun into the air is not something I would encourage anyone to do. SAFETY first. Pistols are not nearly as accurate as a rifle. I shoot a Ruger 10/22 Carbine Rifle in 22 caliber. I have spent my entire life shooting up into trees with a 22. Mostly during squirrel season, but back when my dad and grandpa coon hunted at night they would shoot the coon out of the tree with a 22. My dad and my grandpa spent their entire lives shooting squirrels out of trees with a 22. Now I haven't done any research into this, but I know of no instance of someone being struck in my county with a stray bullet. Often times after missing a squirrel or two on a hunting trip I'd sight it in on a walnut in a tree and see if I am still on. I imagine if it was an issue, the dnr would put a stop to it. It is even legal to pheasant and quail hunt with a 22.
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Post by moose1am on Dec 11, 2019 17:43:03 GMT -5
Moose1am, all the squirrels that I shot with the pistol were just like you described, shooting down from a higher position. BUT I do hunt squirrels with .22 and .17 caliber rifles and they are in a tree. Can you provide some links to data that shows how much property damage and/or people are struck per year by falling rimfire bullets? Linda Deig was shot while driving down the road. The bullet came from a shooting range where someone shot up into the air and the bullet traveled all the way to the highway where Linda was driving. You asked. Google Linda Deig and you will find the story. Shooting anywhere that you can't control where your bullets are going is never good. We must be responsible hunters. I used a 12 gauge shotgun when hunting squirrels up in the upper parts of trees. The pellets don't go that far and are not going to hurt anyone downrange when hunting in a large woods with no other people or houses or roads around. Good to see that you are shooting downward and know where your bullets go.
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Post by esshup on Dec 12, 2019 1:22:07 GMT -5
Moose1am, all the squirrels that I shot with the pistol were just like you described, shooting down from a higher position. BUT I do hunt squirrels with .22 and .17 caliber rifles and they are in a tree. Can you provide some links to data that shows how much property damage and/or people are struck per year by falling rimfire bullets? Linda Deig was shot while driving down the road. The bullet came from a shooting range where someone shot up into the air and the bullet traveled all the way to the highway where Linda was driving. You asked. Google Linda Deig and you will find the story. Shooting anywhere that you can't control where your bullets are going is never good. We must be responsible hunters. I used a 12 gauge shotgun when hunting squirrels up in the upper parts of trees. The pellets don't go that far and are not going to hurt anyone downrange when hunting in a large woods with no other people or houses or roads around. Good to see that you are shooting downward and know where your bullets go. Can you throw up a link to the story? Googling Linda Deig is coming up with nothing.
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Post by HighCotton on Dec 12, 2019 8:51:37 GMT -5
Almost all of the squirrels I’ve shot have been from above, shooting down. Notice, I said almost. I have shot many squirrels with a 22 up in a tree and I will continue to do so unless the law is changed. For me, the key is following one of the firearms safety rules, knowing my target and what lies beyond, behind and around the target. I will also say that many times I have let a squirrel go because I was not comfortable with the fact that I did not really know what was beyond my target. I think it is a valid point of concern and I think it all comes down to being an ethical woodsman, hunter and shooter.
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Post by Russ Koon on Jun 6, 2020 10:50:17 GMT -5
I remember my brother in law and I doing some informal testing from a bridge over White River one sleepy day long ago with our .22's. We had a clear view upstream about 500 yards, and we each took several shots at various angles of elevation trying to determine the best angle for maximum distance before splashdown. We also wondered whether there would be any noticeable difference between the distance achieved between his semi-auto and my lever gun.
All of our shots splashed down before getting to the bend in the river. I suppose the warning on the package might be an accurate estimate of the downrange danger if you're shooting down a steep slope at the best elevation for maximum travel and have a decent tailwind...but I doubt it. I suspect it's much closer to being a typical example of safety warnings that are generally so overstated as to be generally ignored. It's a pity, too, because they might be of more use if they were more realistic in nature.
The other factor in considering the actual downrange distance where the danger of a falling bullet exists would be that the steep uphill angle involved in the usual shot at a squirrel would be much steeper than that that would yield maximum distance.
Keeping those things in mind, I do keep in mind the direction to the nearest residence and roads, and maneuver around to a better angle to make a safe shot if either is within a couple hundred yards.
And of course, it's also best to not miss, and to use hollow point ammo. 8^)
And, the subsonic LR's have even less downrange danger perimeter than the full speed stuff.
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