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Post by SFC (R) B on Dec 3, 2019 16:23:04 GMT -5
On another Western forum I am on a discussion is ongoing about what outfitters pay to lease private land out here. I piped in with what I know the farms I USED to be able to hunt in IN are leasing for and now have some questions for those who do lease in IN or are considering it. 1) What are you paying or do you consider reasonable and for what size property? 2) What kind of conditions/restrictions are you subject to or think would be reasonable? 3) Other than the obvious "room to yourself" what other reasons have led you to this decision? 4) How do we square leasing/decreasing access with decreasing hunter numbers and the possibility of turning hunting in the Midwest into a rich man's game? Feel free to bring up anything you think is relevant
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 3, 2019 16:45:02 GMT -5
1) What are you paying or do you consider reasonable and for what size property?
Presently, we have no direct cost of permission anywhere...that said we do invest hundreds of dollars to two landowners and do foodplots and such for permission to ourselves outside of firearms season...when that comes we lose permission to them for a short time. We are actually getting ready to discuss leasing a portion of one spot for ALL the time, seems $20/acre is where we are thinking of starting the convo...but from others may need to fork over as much as $100/Acre for the right ground.
2) What kind of conditions/restrictions are you subject to or think would be reasonable?
If I'm leasing that lease agreement is all inclusive. I want rights to deal with trespassers, file charges if affected, no joy riding on quads and such through, basically if any of the above are desired that cost better start dropping for me.
3) Other than the obvious "room to yourself" what other reasons have led you to this decision?
We are slowly losing a lot of spots...and I like the peace of mind (albeit at a freaking cost) knowing I have a spot to go...I wish public was closer because I know I would grind hours in on public if so!
4) How do we square leasing/decreasing access with decreasing hunter numbers and the possibility of turning hunting in the Midwest into a rich man's game?
Its here to stay, and lease ups are for sure a large impact on hunter access issues...BUT...there are tons of folks unwilling to hunt public and would be BLOWN away by the low pressure many a public ground receives OUTSIDE of firearms season. That goes hand in hand with many folks just want stuff given to them...I know I've personally garnered permission on some properties where others had it as well and slowly by just taking care of the property and landowner the others by acts of their own stupidity or laziness made themselves no longer allowed to hunt.
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Post by steiny on Dec 3, 2019 17:13:16 GMT -5
I've leased through both HLN and Basecamp and have done so for about ten years now with no complaints. We pay approx. $20 per acre which seems to be about the going rate for good deer ground.
Conditions include: a. Our lease is limited to (5) hunters max and those hunters have to be named in advance and sign the paperwork. b. Liability insurance for the property owner is included. c. We have exclusive hunting access for any and all legal game as well as fishing, mushroom hunting, etc. The only other folks that are supposed to be on the ground are farm employees engaged in farm work. d. ATVs can be used for setting stands and game retrieval, no recreational riding. e. Can't damage anything; fences, trees, roadways, farm lanes, etc.
The best thing about leasing is that you can get exclusive hunting access to a great farm for a fraction of the cost of ownership. My out of pocket cost is about the cost of a 5 day semi guided whitetail hunt, and I can hunt the entire season as much as I want. We can set stands and hunt the property the way we want.
I guess I don't really care about "hunting turning into a rich mans game" because I think that's a line of B.S. Just about anyone could sacrifice a few things, go in with a buddy and afford to lease a farm if they really wanted to.
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 3, 2019 17:19:05 GMT -5
I guess I don't really care about "hunting turning into a rich mans game" because I think that's a line of B.S. Just about anyone could sacrifice a few things, go in with a buddy and afford to lease a farm if they really wanted to. SPEAK UP FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!
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Post by onebentarrow on Dec 3, 2019 17:58:52 GMT -5
I guess I don't really care about "hunting turning into a rich mans game" because I think that's a line of B.S. Just about anyone could sacrifice a few things, go in with a buddy and afford to lease a farm if they really wanted to. SPEAK UP FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!! :)
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Post by onebentarrow on Dec 3, 2019 18:01:17 GMT -5
I guess I don't really care about "hunting turning into a rich mans game" because I think that's a line of B.S. Just about anyone could sacrifice a few things, go in with a buddy and afford to lease a farm if they really wanted to. SPEAK UP FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!! :) When I have to pay to hunt it is no longer fun as I feel I have to kill something to justify the expenditure. Now if I am going with a guide that is different as I feel that is a vacation and if I harvest any thing that is a bonus
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Post by coaldust on Dec 3, 2019 18:14:41 GMT -5
No if you lease basecamp or HLN they are charging upwards of 50 bucks an acre for small property's. Goes down some per acre for larger properties.
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Post by coaldust on Dec 3, 2019 18:16:02 GMT -5
20 bucks an acre went out in warrick, pike, gibson co. several years ago. There is a 40 acre property on HLN in lynnville right now starting bid $1954.00
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Post by coaldust on Dec 3, 2019 18:24:02 GMT -5
I've leased through both HLN and Basecamp and have done so for about ten years now with no complaints. We pay approx. $20 per acre which seems to be about the going rate for good deer ground. Conditions include: a. Our lease is limited to (5) hunters max and those hunters have to be named in advance and sign the paperwork. b. Liability insurance for the property owner is included. c. We have exclusive hunting access for any and all legal game as well as fishing, mushroom hunting, etc. The only other folks that are supposed to be on the ground are farm employees engaged in farm work. d. ATVs can be used for setting stands and game retrieval, no recreational riding. e. Can't damage anything; fences, trees, roadways, farm lanes, etc. The best thing about leasing is that you can get exclusive hunting access to a great farm for a fraction of the cost of ownership. My out of pocket cost is about the cost of a 5 day semi guided whitetail hunt, and I can hunt the entire season as much as I want. We can set stands and hunt the property the way we want. I guess I don't really care about "hunting turning into a rich mans game" because I think that's a line of B.S. Just about anyone could sacrifice a few things, go in with a buddy and afford to lease a farm if they really wanted to.
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Post by coaldust on Dec 3, 2019 18:24:57 GMT -5
Find a property for 20 bucks an acre & I will lease it right now!
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Post by freedomhunter on Dec 3, 2019 18:52:58 GMT -5
Find a property for 20 bucks an acre & I will lease it right now! Yeah more like 30 to 35 where I hunt and that gets scooped up pretty quick. I do agree most the whiners could DO SOMETHING to get good ground instead of sitting around complaining. The stories I have are endless trying to help people. You have to offer something!
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 3, 2019 19:18:25 GMT -5
SPEAK UP FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!! When I have to pay to hunt it is no longer fun as I feel I have to kill something to justify the expenditure. Now if I am going with a guide that is different as I feel that is a vacation and if I harvest any thing that is a bonus And that sentiment doesn't disagree with what was said in my opinion. I already pay to hunt, maybe not directly to the landowner but all the time and energy and vacation time alone towards the endeavor...then add in the actual cost of all the habitat stuff I love to do (trees, bushes, grasses before we even touch plots)...stands, lifelines and tags. I'm there with you though if I ever have to lease it will only sadly be for one place as the cost of good leases I cannot justify nor willing to sacrifice enough to have them. However, if I want to hunt I still could and would make it happen whether for a lease or public land trips in and out of state. Choice is ours to make some would, some wouldn't...doesn't make any man better than another, just means some will sacrifice or go the extra mile to hunt. The value of hunting and what it is worth to one in effort, time and money is 100% person to person.
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Post by esshup on Dec 3, 2019 23:21:59 GMT -5
It seems leasing ground in Indiana is cheaper than dirt than leasing ground in the famed triangle over in Illinois.
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Post by onebentarrow on Dec 4, 2019 2:16:34 GMT -5
When I have to pay to hunt it is no longer fun as I feel I have to kill something to justify the expenditure. Now if I am going with a guide that is different as I feel that is a vacation and if I harvest any thing that is a bonus And that sentiment doesn't disagree with what was said in my opinion. I already pay to hunt, maybe not directly to the landowner but all the time and energy and vacation time alone towards the endeavor...then add in the actual cost of all the habitat stuff I love to do (trees, bushes, grasses before we even touch plots)...stands, lifelines and tags. I'm there with you though if I ever have to lease it will only sadly be for one place as the cost of good leases I cannot justify nor willing to sacrifice enough to have them. However, if I want to hunt I still could and would make it happen whether for a lease or public land trips in and out of state. Choice is ours to make some would, some wouldn't...doesn't make any man better than another, just means some will sacrifice or go the extra mile to hunt. The value of hunting and what it is worth to one in effort, time and money is 100% person to person. I can not disagree with any thing you said. I my self do not do the foodplots habitat and all that stuff. I guess my foundation comes from when I was young and on my own and I hunted for meat in the freezer because I did not have money for store bought meat. I have been tight with my money and when the cost of deer is more expensive then store bought I might as well buy store bought. Do not get me wrong,I love to hunt. I eat every thing I shoot. And I process everything too.(again to expensive to have some one do what I can do myself). I do not hold it against anyone that has the time or money to do the things they do but I myself just can not justify them. This is just a little insight in to my background and why I hunt the way I do. Onebentarrow Edited I guess I should state that the small place I hunt is a good friend of mine and i am allowed to hunt it because of crop damage and if not for me it would not get hunted as they have had problems with other "hunters"
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Post by duff on Dec 4, 2019 5:31:40 GMT -5
I lease a small property with 2 other guys. It butts up to land locked state ground. All told probably 500 acres available. We have stands covering 150 acres. Total annual lease is $300.
We spend another $150 on food plot.
Lease includes everything but ginseng.
I do it as a good opportunity that came to me. With work and family obligations I never make time to drive around knocking on doors anymore. Guys I hunt with have knocked on a few doors and have permission on several properties, just for asking. There are lots of opportunities that dont require a lease and a lease does not prevent a hunter from losing the access either. Properties change ownership, owner's die etc...The value to leasing through basecamp or any broker is convenience. I can browse a list and pick what I want. Other people have done the work.
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Post by beermaker on Dec 4, 2019 5:39:24 GMT -5
I lease a small property with 2 other guys. It butts up to land locked state ground. All told probably 500 acres available. We have stands covering 150 acres. Total annual lease is $300. We spend another $150 on food plot. Lease includes everything but ginseng. I do it as a good opportunity that came to me. With work and family obligations I never make time to drive around knocking on doors anymore. Guys I hunt with have knocked on a few doors and have permission on several properties, just for asking. There are lots of opportunities that dont require a lease and a lease does not prevent a hunter from losing the access either. Properties change ownership, owner's die etc...The value to leasing through basecamp or any broker is convenience. I can browse a list and pick what I want. Other people have done the work. Sounds like you have a great arrangement. I've lost three good hunting properties due to death and ownership changes. Two of them were identical. Old farmer dies, kids don't farm, don't get along, etc., land gets sold.
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Post by jjas on Dec 4, 2019 7:24:41 GMT -5
I guess it all depends on what you want.
Some guys are just happy to kill a doe or a small buck to fill the freezer, while others want to try and kill a giant buck every season. Nothing wrong with either mindset IMO.
But the days of "pay to play" (whether it's buying, leasing or putting in improvements on someone else's land) is the way it is for most to hunt deer.
I'm fortunate enough to have some private ground to hunt on. In exchange for that access I spend a lot of time during the year working on plots, doing maintenance on (or moving stands), and anything else that needs to be done.
In other words....nothing's free in this world (for most of us) and while I'm definitely on the backside of my hunting days, I hope to hunt on the land I have access to for the next several years.
But, when that access goes, I'll likely be finished with hunting.
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 4, 2019 8:01:01 GMT -5
And that sentiment doesn't disagree with what was said in my opinion. I already pay to hunt, maybe not directly to the landowner but all the time and energy and vacation time alone towards the endeavor...then add in the actual cost of all the habitat stuff I love to do (trees, bushes, grasses before we even touch plots)...stands, lifelines and tags. I'm there with you though if I ever have to lease it will only sadly be for one place as the cost of good leases I cannot justify nor willing to sacrifice enough to have them. However, if I want to hunt I still could and would make it happen whether for a lease or public land trips in and out of state. Choice is ours to make some would, some wouldn't...doesn't make any man better than another, just means some will sacrifice or go the extra mile to hunt. The value of hunting and what it is worth to one in effort, time and money is 100% person to person. I can not disagree with any thing you said. I my self do not do the foodplots habitat and all that stuff. I guess my foundation comes from when I was young and on my own and I hunted for meat in the freezer because I did not have money for store bought meat. I have been tight with my money and when the cost of deer is more expensive then store bought I might as well buy store bought. Do not get me wrong,I love to hunt. I eat every thing I shoot. And I process everything too.(again to expensive to have some one do what I can do myself). I do not hold it against anyone that has the time or money to do the things they do but I myself just can not justify them. This is just a little insight in to my background and why I hunt the way I do. Onebentarrow Edited I guess I should state that the small place I hunt is a good friend of mine and i am allowed to hunt it because of crop damage and if not for me it would not get hunted as they have had problems with other "hunters" 100% get what you're saying. Just wanted to make sure if that didn't come across well it should have.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 4, 2019 8:05:40 GMT -5
I guess it all depends on what you want. Some guys are just happy to kill a doe or a small buck to fill the freezer, while others want to try and kill a giant buck every season. Nothing wrong with either mindset IMO. But the days of "pay to play" (whether it's buying, leasing or putting in improvements on someone else's land) is the way it is for most to hunt deer. I'm fortunate enough to have some private ground to hunt on. In exchange for that access I spend a lot of time during the year working on plots, doing maintenance on (or moving stands), and anything else that needs to be done. In other words....nothing's free in this world (for most of us) and while I'm definitely on the backside of my hunting days, I hope to hunt on the land I have access to for the next several years. But, when that access goes, I'll likely be finished with hunting. Folks don’t lease just to kill a “giant every year” that’s a false perception by many. Most lease to control and secure a area to hunt! Leasing isn’t always about trophy hunting as some want other to perceive. BTW..... If anyone thinks leasing will go away any time soon they are lost at what reality is for sure!
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Post by parrothead on Dec 4, 2019 8:33:14 GMT -5
The hunting club I belong to in Alabama is 2,500 acres and the lease is $27,000 a year.
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