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Post by greghopper on Oct 18, 2019 18:42:37 GMT -5
October 16, 2019 | By Lindsay Thomas Jr. t.co/yVLxh1grG2?amp=1Donnie Draeger used to believe in culling deer to improve antler genetics. Over his career as the wildlife biologist at the Comanche Ranch in southwest Texas, he’d spent a lot of time and the ranch’s money on such efforts. Then the results of a years-long scientific culling study at the ranch started to become available. Donnie no longer recommends culling on the Comanche Ranch, and he urges all deer hunters to stop culling as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 19:49:26 GMT -5
October 16, 2019 | By Lindsay Thomas Jr. t.co/yVLxh1grG2?amp=1Donnie Draeger used to believe in culling deer to improve antler genetics. Over his career as the wildlife biologist at the Comanche Ranch in southwest Texas, he’d spent a lot of time and the ranch’s money on such efforts. Then the results of a years-long scientific culling study at the ranch started to become available. Donnie no longer recommends culling on the Comanche Ranch, and he urges all deer hunters to stop culling as well.I don`t believe in qdma, since all deer are already quality deer. The obsession with inches of antler is helping to literally kill deer hunting. The lifeblood of deer hunting and as the average, blue-collar deer hunter are the primary tool wildlife biologists have to help keep the herds inline with the habitats carrying capacity, and thereby, manage the health of the herd, is greatly diminished because of trophy hunting. As the regular working guy is taken out of the hunt by leasing agents and the loss of accessibility to hunting properties, it becomes much less likely that Fish and Wildlife agencies sell enough licenses to accumulate the necessary funds to run these agencies, and the deer herds are less well managed, the habitat for both game, and non-game animals suffers, and the burden becomes too great to recruit new hunters into the lifestyle of hunting. Before you claim that you`re not talking about qdma, or whatever other names you use, talking about any tactic to "improve antler genetics", is part and parcel of the obsession with trophy antlers and inches of antler, and all of this contributes to loss of available hunting properties for the average working guy, and greatly, and negatively impacts the future of deer and deer hunting. |
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Post by greghopper on Oct 18, 2019 19:57:16 GMT -5
October 16, 2019 | By Lindsay Thomas Jr. t.co/yVLxh1grG2?amp=1Donnie Draeger used to believe in culling deer to improve antler genetics. Over his career as the wildlife biologist at the Comanche Ranch in southwest Texas, he’d spent a lot of time and the ranch’s money on such efforts. Then the results of a years-long scientific culling study at the ranch started to become available. Donnie no longer recommends culling on the Comanche Ranch, and he urges all deer hunters to stop culling as well.I don`t believe in qdma, since all deer are already quality deer. The obsession with inches of antler is helping to literally kill deer hunting. The lifeblood of deer hunting and as the average, blue-collar deer hunter are the primary tool wildlife biologists have to help keep the herds inline with the habitats carrying capacity, and thereby, manage the health of the herd, is greatly diminished because of trophy hunting. As the regular working guy is taken out of the hunt by leasing agents and the loss of accessibility to hunting properties, it becomes much less likely that Fish and Wildlife agencies sell enough licenses to accumulate the necessary funds to run these agencies, and the deer herds are less well managed, the habitat for both game, and non-game animals suffers, and the burden becomes too great to recruit new hunters into the lifestyle of hunting. Before you claim that you`re not talking about qdma, or whatever other names you use, talking about any tactic to "improve antler genetics", is part and parcel of the obsession with trophy antlers and inches of antler, and all of this contributes to loss of available hunting properties for the average working guy, and greatly, and negatively impacts the future of deer and deer hunting. Got any data to back up your thoughts...Our is this another opinion of your's? BTW... I'm not talking about anything...I just posted a article for folks to read and discuss. |
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Post by swilk on Oct 19, 2019 17:19:06 GMT -5
To not agree with qdm is to not understand what qdm is....
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Post by esshup on Oct 19, 2019 20:32:30 GMT -5
QDMA only works if you can get ALL the hunters in a given area to stick with the program. OR you have enough $$ so you can buy enough property so that you control all the hunting on it.
IHMO both situations are not doable for the average hunter.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2019 22:08:00 GMT -5
I don`t believe in qdma, since all deer are already quality deer. The obsession with inches of antler is helping to literally kill deer hunting. The lifeblood of deer hunting and as the average, blue-collar deer hunter are the primary tool wildlife biologists have to help keep the herds inline with the habitats carrying capacity, and thereby, manage the health of the herd, is greatly diminished because of trophy hunting. As the regular working guy is taken out of the hunt by leasing agents and the loss of accessibility to hunting properties, it becomes much less likely that Fish and Wildlife agencies sell enough licenses to accumulate the necessary funds to run these agencies, and the deer herds are less well managed, the habitat for both game, and non-game animals suffers, and the burden becomes too great to recruit new hunters into the lifestyle of hunting. Before you claim that you`re not talking about qdma, or whatever other names you use, talking about any tactic to "improve antler genetics", is part and parcel of the obsession with trophy antlers and inches of antler, and all of this contributes to loss of available hunting properties for the average working guy, and greatly, and negatively impacts the future of deer and deer hunting. Got any data to back up your thoughts...Our is this another opinion of your's? BTW... I'm not talking about anything...I just posted a article for folks to read and discuss. I would think it`s extremely clear from my post that it`s all just my opinion. That`s ok...right? |
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Post by beermaker on Oct 20, 2019 11:49:17 GMT -5
QDMA only works if you can get ALL the hunters in a given area to stick with the program. OR you have enough $$ so you can buy enough property so that you control all the hunting on it. IHMO both situations are not doable for the average hunter. Exactly! A friend of mine owns 60+/- acres in an area that is dotted with crop fields and 20-100 acre wooded parcels that have been purchased for hunting. He is always yapping about QDMA and passing on this and that. I have tried to tell him that he is whizzing in the wind. I know for a fact that the property owners directly behind him shoot anything that walks and let all of their very large family hunt there. As long as I've been hunting (31 yrs), the area has been known for having a high deer and hunter population. The biggest bucks killed in the area on a normal basis are textbook average eight pointers. I can't get him to understand that if he doesn't shoot one, the next guy across the property line will. I keep telling him to just fill the freezer and forget about it. |
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Post by duff on Oct 20, 2019 11:57:24 GMT -5
QDMA only works if you can get ALL the hunters in a given area to stick with the program. OR you have enough $$ so you can buy enough property so that you control all the hunting on it. IHMO both situations are not doable for the average hunter. Exactly! A friend of mine owns 60+/- acres in an area that is dotted with crop fields and 20-100 acre wooded parcels that have been purchased for hunting. He is always yapping about QDMA and passing on this and that. I have tried to tell him that he is whizzing in the wind. I know for a fact that the property owners directly behind him shoot anything that walks and let all of their very large family hunt there. As long as I've been hunting (31 yrs), the area has been known for having a high deer and hunter population. The biggest bucks killed in the area on a normal basis are textbook average eight pointers. I can't get him to understand that if he doesn't shoot one, the next guy across the property line will. I keep telling him to just fill the freezer and forget about it. I don't care what my neighbors shoot or dont shoot. I will shoot what makes me happy. If it does not make me happy and it makes the neighbor happy...great for them. When your decision is to shoot a deer solely based on if the neighbor will then you become the neighbor. Just my thoughts. I dont know crap about qdm so no opinion on how sound it is or isnt. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 12:07:09 GMT -5
Exactly! A friend of mine owns 60+/- acres in an area that is dotted with crop fields and 20-100 acre wooded parcels that have been purchased for hunting. He is always yapping about QDMA and passing on this and that. I have tried to tell him that he is whizzing in the wind. I know for a fact that the property owners directly behind him shoot anything that walks and let all of their very large family hunt there. As long as I've been hunting (31 yrs), the area has been known for having a high deer and hunter population. The biggest bucks killed in the area on a normal basis are textbook average eight pointers. I can't get him to understand that if he doesn't shoot one, the next guy across the property line will. I keep telling him to just fill the freezer and forget about it. I don't care what my neighbors shoot or dont shoot. I will shoot what makes me happy. If it does not make me happy and it makes the neighbor happy...great for them. When your decision is to shoot a deer solely based on if the neighbor will then you become the neighbor. Just my thoughts. I dont know crap about qdm so no opinion on how sound it is or isnt. And what you just said used to be, and should be the crux of deer hunting. It`s just my humble opinion, but, deer hunting ought not be about anything other than what any legal, ethical hunter wants for himself and his family. For many, and I`m one of those, deer hunting is primarily about camaraderie in the field, enjoying all the sights, sounds, smells and feelings associated with being in the deer woods, and if we`re blessed, bringing home lean, flavorful, healthy venison to feed our families. If it just so happens that I`m blessed to kill a huge racked buck, so much the better, but I`m just not into "trophy" hunting. For those who are, that`s great too, but it`s rude, thoughtless, and arrogant to impose your hunting expectations onto others who don`t share that view or vision. I`ve killed Pope and Young caliber bucks, but, this season, I just may be the guy who kills that basket racked 6 or 8-pointer, and I won`t apologize, explain myself or make excuses. I hunt legally, ethically, as humanely as possible, and that`s all any of us needs to aim for or explain. |
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Post by greghopper on Oct 20, 2019 13:25:13 GMT -5
To not agree with qdm is to not understand what qdm is.... The POWER of a few words....spot on  ! |
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Post by tynimiller on Oct 21, 2019 8:15:37 GMT -5
The gross misunderstanding of QDM is about as rampant these days as what the "Pro" in Pro-Staff means LOL
Committing or choosing to dedicate ones mind and actions to QDM involves no one but themselves, changes no one but themselves and is not about anything other than desiring what is good by the deer they pursue. That plays out perhaps in what trees they plant, what forestry actions they take, the type and sex of the deer they harvest and the conservation activities they support or take part in.
Everyone has got to get it through their skull that hunting is a personal thing, someone that decides to take their habitat work more serious or maybe pass a deer they would have shot years ago is a PERSONAL thing. Your opinion is pointless unless requested for them to formulate theirs...and so long as they're legal and act with proper ethics I'll take them as hunting brethren any day over anyone spouting their view or opinion is the "right way" or the "only way" or "the pure way" or the "when it was right way".
God bless....
-Full disclosure I 100% believe in QDM...on my 22 acre personal property, my parents 9 acre, and pieces from 5 acres to 75acres I only have hunting rights on....it can and is implemented in various fashions on each.
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Post by greghopper on Oct 21, 2019 8:25:53 GMT -5
The gross misunderstanding of QDM is about as rampant these days as what the "Pro" in Pro-Staff means LOL Committing or choosing to dedicate ones mind and actions to QDM involves no one but themselves, changes no one but themselves and is not about anything other than desiring what is good by the deer they pursue. That plays out perhaps in what trees they plant, what forestry actions they take, the type and sex of the deer they harvest and the conservation activities they support or take part in. Everyone has got to get it through their skull that hunting is a personal thing, someone that decides to take their habitat work more serious or maybe pass a deer they would have shot years ago is a PERSONAL thing. Your opinion is pointless unless requested for them to formulate theirs...and so long as they're legal and act with proper ethics I'll take them as hunting brethren any day over anyone spouting their view or opinion is the "right way" or the "only way" or "the pure way" or the "when it was right way". God bless.... -Full disclosure I 100% believe in QDM...on my 22 acre personal property, my parents 9 acre, and pieces from 5 acres to 75acres I only have hunting rights on....it can and is implemented in various fashions on each. ^^^^^^ This |
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Post by jjas on Oct 21, 2019 8:46:52 GMT -5
The gross misunderstanding of QDM is about as rampant these days as what the "Pro" in Pro-Staff means LOL Committing or choosing to dedicate ones mind and actions to QDM involves no one but themselves, changes no one but themselves and is not about anything other than desiring what is good by the deer they pursue. That plays out perhaps in what trees they plant, what forestry actions they take, the type and sex of the deer they harvest and the conservation activities they support or take part in. Everyone has got to get it through their skull that hunting is a personal thing, someone that decides to take their habitat work more serious or maybe pass a deer they would have shot years ago is a PERSONAL thing. Your opinion is pointless unless requested for them to formulate theirs...and so long as they're legal and act with proper ethics I'll take them as hunting brethren any day over anyone spouting their view or opinion is the "right way" or the "only way" or "the pure way" or the "when it was right way". God bless.... -Full disclosure I 100% believe in QDM...on my 22 acre personal property, my parents 9 acre, and pieces from 5 acres to 75acres I only have hunting rights on....it can and is implemented in various fashions on each. I think QDM and QDMA both suffer from association with another term that is used by many when describing deer hunting today and that is trophy hunting. Like it or not, many feel that trophy hunting is a derogatory term when describing deer hunting and deer hunters today. There's no question that deer hunting has changed over the last 20-30 years. Back in the day if you killed any buck, it was a "trophy". Now, far too many people try to tell others what they should shoot, or question why they didn't let that 3 1/2 year old 120" 8 pointer walk. Throw in the crazy amounts of money that people spend on land, leasing, habitat improvement, food plots, cameras, high dollar bows, guns, optics, clothing, etc and it's not surprising that many feel that "hunters" have kind of lost their minds in what many see as the pursuit of antlers. So while most of us on this forum understand what the difference is, I contend that convincing non-hunters (and quite frankly many deer hunters) that there is a difference is a hard sell. Especially when practically every magazine cover and hunting show puts an emphasis on killing big antlered bucks. |
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Post by greghopper on Oct 21, 2019 9:01:28 GMT -5
People have been Trophy hunting for ever and it's not just about Deer!
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Post by jjas on Oct 21, 2019 9:05:18 GMT -5
People have been Trophy hunting for ever and it's not just about Deer! I understand your point, but try to sell that to many non-hunters and quite frankly many deer hunters. |
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Post by esshup on Oct 21, 2019 9:05:36 GMT -5
QDMA only works if you can get ALL the hunters in a given area to stick with the program. OR you have enough $$ so you can buy enough property so that you control all the hunting on it. IHMO both situations are not doable for the average hunter. Exactly! A friend of mine owns 60+/- acres in an area that is dotted with crop fields and 20-100 acre wooded parcels that have been purchased for hunting. He is always yapping about QDMA and passing on this and that. I have tried to tell him that he is whizzing in the wind. I know for a fact that the property owners directly behind him shoot anything that walks and let all of their very large family hunt there. As long as I've been hunting (31 yrs), the area has been known for having a high deer and hunter population. The biggest bucks killed in the area on a normal basis are textbook average eight pointers. I can't get him to understand that if he doesn't shoot one, the next guy across the property line will. I keep telling him to just fill the freezer and forget about it. 80 acres with another 80 acres of sanctuary forest isn't big enough. At least it's not big enough if there isn't a fence around it... I tried to let bigger bucks walk and get bigger only to never see them again. So, for me, there is absolutely no "managing" for big bucks, there is only managing the habitat to do what I can to help the deer herd. If I want to shoot a bigger buck, I better get it done before gun season rolls around or there will be only little ones left walking around during legal shooting time. Last year I found a nice perfectly symmetrical 10 point that wasn't bigger than it's ears laying dead near a ditch that was shot thru the guts right in front of the rear legs with a slug. I don't care what size deer is shot, but what really bothers me is guys that can't shoot worth sh** going out hunting. |
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Post by greghopper on Oct 21, 2019 9:20:10 GMT -5
People have been Trophy hunting for ever and it's not just about Deer! I understand your point, but try to sell that to many non-hunters and quite frankly many deer hunters. Not sure it's anyone's place to sell it to others! Why would someone need sold on throphy hunting ? Do tell. BTW..... in some ways Trophy Hunting actually saves the resources for other and future generations. |
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Post by jjas on Oct 21, 2019 10:30:32 GMT -5
greghopper
Like it or not, trophy hunting is a term that many non-hunters (and some hunters) throw around as a derogatory definition of hunting for what has been referred to as the sport killing of the largest/oldest of the species.
And while you and I may not agree with that definition, as hunter numbers continue to dwindle, I think it's always a good idea to try and educate those who seem to have a differing viewpoint.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 21, 2019 10:47:08 GMT -5
greghopper Like it or not, trophy hunting is a term that many non-hunters love to throw around as a derogatory definition of hunting for what is referred to as the sport killing of the largest/oldest of the species. And while you and I may not agree with that definition, as hunter numbers continue to dwindle, I think it's always a good idea to try and educate those who seem to have a differing viewpoint. 87% said its OK to "hunt for food" but it goes south in a hurry to 37% when it is "trophy hunting". www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5704112/I'm quite sure that the general non-hunting public and some hunters have been fed false information on what is "trophy hunting" but that does not matter. It is their perception that counts as of right now. So, yes we all need to "sell what trophy hunting" actually is to non-hunters and some hunters too. |
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Post by greghopper on Oct 21, 2019 10:57:38 GMT -5
So what's the National definition of a Trophy animal?
And Trophy Hunting?
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