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Post by boonechaser on Jan 5, 2019 10:57:31 GMT -5
This is a great civil discussion! Well this isn't Facebook.....lol
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Post by boonechaser on Jan 6, 2019 23:17:57 GMT -5
Been digging and digging articles on CWD as there has to be more to this story and I believe I am starting to get it.. Appears some scientists in Canada who primarily study mad cow diseases began studying CWD. During their experiments they fed monkeys CWD positive deer brains, injected monkeys brains with CWD. Basically trying to give the monkeys CWD and they were successful. Theory of evolution suggest humans evolved from monkeys so although they went to extreme methods to give CWD to the monkeys scientist are basically worried human's could at some point get or CWD could mutate and spread to human's. That's my take at this point.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 7, 2019 6:44:06 GMT -5
The following are notes from the Indiana Sportsmen's Roundtable Saturday January 5th from another site.
Current 2019 Deer Season – Where we are with CWD Dr. Nancy Boedeker – Wildlife Veterinarian CWD – Can be taken in by deer elk moose reindeer. It is currently always fatal. It effects the neurological system. Caused by prion. Still consider very new to science. It can’t be fought off like diseases. Can be shed from secretions, i.e. nasal secretions saliva feces urine. It stays persistently in the environment for a long time. They get it from contact with other deer secretions. No real testing for live deer as of right now. DNR is looking at deer that CWD can also be spread in carcasses. have been hit or hunter harvested. They also test on deer that are reported as sick and can be harvested. Control – No state has eradicated that we know of yet. NY may have stopped CWD and they were very aggressive. Minimizing the number of deer and reduce deer density have both shown signs of reducing the spread and persistency in an area. Originally is was found in 1967, found in captive Mule deer and spread to other captive deer and elk and finally spread to wild elk in CO. Currently there is no specific contingency plan in place now, because it is being revamped. They are discussing the plan with other state groups. There have been NO positive test from this season yet. CDC recommend ion is to test meat in areas where CWD has been found, and if it tests positive than do not eat the meat. So far there are no cases of it spreading to humans. There have been tests that have infected other animals, but that was direct injection into the brain. They are doing more tests all the time. Resent research shows plants can uptake the prion from the root into the plant. They are testing to see if this can pass to deer or other animals yet. BOA covers captive deer DNR covers wild deer. They are working with BOA to see what their plan is vs. the plan DNR comes up with. They are both revising their plans. They are working with Vet Services and Department of Health and all the other groups that would respond to CWD in the state. They do intend to reach out to the public with their plan idea before it gets finalized. TB has been a focus, but as that gets under control they are backing off resources and putting them to CWD. Dr. Joe Caudell – Deer Biologist Old CWD information came from 2006. It is much more prevalent in the population now. Wi and MO both got it about the same time. Started about 1% prevalence in the population. Now WI is about 50% of the population in those original areas. MO is still around 1-2%. There is a big difference it controlling the spread and the prevalence based on how you approach the plan to control it. We are focused on areas where it is close to us. NW along Kankakee River it is 25 miles across the border in IL. We are looking at 9 counties in that NW area on IN. IL keeps a low prevalence rate. It is 30 miles across our NE boarder in MI. It is also in OH. It is not in KY. They are studying the spread of CWD. Some believe it can be traced to captive deer movement, but some is do to natural deer movement. When researchers used radio collars for studies, they believed deer didn’t travel far from their home range. When they couldn’t find one, they assumed collar failure or something. Now researchers use GPS collars. We are finding some deer will make excursion up to 70 -80 miles using gps collars. This is usually outside breading cycle. The deer a lot of the time returns home. CWD can also be spread in carcasses. We are using a new tool that lets us know how many deer specimen to sample in an area to figure out prevalence in an area. We are really looking hard to find CWD. Newton county we have sampled 80 deer so far which gets us to 2% prevalence. We would need 300 deer to get down to 1% and 1000 deer to get down to ½%. We are currently sampling at 2% prevalence. We are working on getting that down. Having people report sick deer is important. Sampling 1 sick deer is better than sampling 30 yearlings. Especially old male deer that look sick. Make sure hunters are getting the word out to each other to report sick deer and get the DNR out to investigate. The DNR will need lots of help getting more samples. There is an enormous amount of ongoing research, however there is no science that has shown ways to get rid of it or stop CWD. A lot of the research has brought up more questions than it has answered. It may be a while before they can get a complete handle on it. So far, the vaccines that are getting a lot of hype have all failed to prove effective. The last big prevention product ended up increasing susceptibility. There is a lot of research on defecting the land, but they haven’t proven they work yet. The IN DNR is constantly watching this. There is a way to send in test results directly to the DNR if you have your deer privately tested. Info on their web page. The US geological services have a current map of where CWD is in the country on their web page. Currently if it is found within 10 miles of our border, we would identify a target area where testing would increase immediately, reduce the deer density in the area, stop feeding in the area. NO sharp shooters to start. This is under revision currently. Currently carcasses can be brought in to the state from other states including CWD states. There is currently no national identification method to notify us if hunters have hunted in a positive area and their deer came back positive. We have had hunters bring back positive meat from WI however WI contacted us. DNR contacted the hunters. Some states would never be aloud to release that information because of their current state privacy laws. IL currently has the best management practices. When they get a positive, they go in and remove the herd in a radius, size unknown. Then they let the population fill the area back in and continue to test. They aggressively try to get the doe group and the area some of her offspring possibly have moved off to. WI started with an idea like this, but hunters pushed back, and they stopped trying to manage it and now their prevalence is around 50% in the original zones. There are positives and negatives for each plan. However aggressive seems to be more effective on keeping prevalence down. There is no perfect plan. MI is moderately aggressive in their attack of an area, but extremely aggressive in their monitoring. IL is very aggressive on the attack of an area and a little less aggressive on monitoring. IL keeps their plan very accessible to the public online. There are studies that say mule deer decline is due to CWD.
Funding- DNR 50% funded by licenses and federal match DFW 100% funded by licenses and federal match. We are operating on a $2,000,000/yr. deficit. The governor’s office has not been on board with license fee increases for the last 7 years. We believe that he will get on board after he gets re-elected and in his last term. Auto renewal license and multiyear licenses are being looked at as alternative ways to get funding. Commercial fisherman pays less than a sport fisherman. That needs fixed. If we just raised our Hunt, Fish, Bundle and Tag fees $5 it would cover the deficit, but Holcomb won’t let that happen. For us to certify a license we must have at least a $1 profit. If we charged at least $5 for the DAV license we could certify them and get federal funding. Once again Holcomb won’t let that happen. As stated he won’t even discuss it until after he’s re-elected and in his last term.
Bobcat – Representative Shane ? is drafting a bill, but it will not go anywhere. ISR will encourage it to turn into a resolution. The preference is to go through the NRC. Rules are easier to get fixed and/or changed. Example is the high-powered rifle was done poorly and hard to fix. It also sets a bad president. There is NO 5 year wait to take it up again. They will take it up again if the DNR pushes it. The DNR and hunters needs to educate the public. They have only ever educated the constituents, i.e. hunters fishermen and people who are affected. Also, we must get hunters and trappers out to the hearings this time. That will mean some people will need to take a vacation day. R3 – Recruitment retention and reactivation of hunters and fisherman. They have decided that they cannot move the needle on their own. They are going to have a statewide R3 meeting March 16th and bring in experts from around the country on how to grow hunting. We need to get groups and people there. R3 activities are a big push. They are willing to work with NPO’s.
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Post by MuzzleLoader on Jan 7, 2019 7:21:37 GMT -5
I wonder how many people brought infected deer/elk back to Indiana that were not tested in an affected area? Then processed the meat disposed the carcass in the woods or took to a processing place. Potentially bring in CWD into Indiana.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Jan 7, 2019 7:37:47 GMT -5
I wonder how many people brought infected deer/elk back to Indiana that were not tested in an affected area? Then processed the meat disposed the carcass in the woods or took to a processing place. Potentially bring in CWD into Indiana. I'm sure it's been done, but the CWD positive states have rules on transportation of carcasses, as well as many of the states between there and Indiana. So someone that kills a deer in Wyoming and brings the carcass back to Indiana has already broken the law several times by the time they reach home. And the testing takes a couple of weeks, so the meat nearly always will be home in your freezer by the time you know if it's positive/negative. I am not aware of any states that restrict the movement of meat, just brain and spinal column. The biggest thing for a traveling hunter to deal with is getting the brain out if you're doing a euro.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 7, 2019 7:53:30 GMT -5
I wonder how many people brought infected deer/elk back to Indiana that were not tested in an affected area? Then processed the meat disposed the carcass in the woods or took to a processing place. Potentially bring in CWD into Indiana. I'm sure it's been done, but the CWD positive states have rules on transportation of carcasses, as well as many of the states between there and Indiana. So someone that kills a deer in Wyoming and brings the carcass back to Indiana has already broken the law several times by the time they reach home. And the testing takes a couple of weeks, so the meat nearly always will be home in your freezer by the time you know if it's positive/negative. I am not aware of any states that restrict the movement of meat, just brain and spinal column. The biggest thing for a traveling hunter to deal with is getting the brain out if you're doing a euro. SEE... www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/2909.htm
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Jan 7, 2019 8:34:56 GMT -5
Indiana's rules are a lot more lax than the states which currently have CWD. Indiana says bringing in a carcass is OK if delivered to a processor within 72 hours.
However, Wyoming for example, bans the removal of the carcass from the state:
So bringing in a whole deer wouldn't be in violation of Indiana law as I understand it, but you broke the law in Wyoming and probably several states in between by transporting it across state lines.
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Post by parrothead on Jan 7, 2019 8:47:35 GMT -5
I was talking with some buddies at the hunting club in AL. Seems a few weeks ago the GW were set up on top of the over pass watching the backs of trucks as they came into Bama from TN and then pulling them over. Guess they put a bunch of rules in place about what you can and can not bring in from other states.
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Post by MuzzleLoader on Jan 7, 2019 9:51:02 GMT -5
Jay Gregory. Posted this on FB.
For all of you sitting the fence on CWD, ponder this!!
For the first two weeks of January In the expanded CWD ZONE in Southern Minnesota! (About 1000 square miles) Anyone from any state with permission from a land owner can go to Minnesota and kill as many deer as you can kill no limit and do it for free. WITH a rifle...(in zones that are shotgun only in the regular gun season) And you don’t have to wear hunter orange!!
Recap- with landowner permission, shoot as many deer as you want buck or doe,at no cost. With a rifle!
COMING TO A STATE NEAR YOU!!! Wake up people!!!!
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Post by parrothead on Jan 7, 2019 9:57:50 GMT -5
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Post by greghopper on Jan 7, 2019 10:02:58 GMT -5
Jay Gregory. Posted this on FB. For all of you sitting the fence on CWD, ponder this!! For the first two weeks of January In the expanded CWD ZONE in Southern Minnesota! (About 1000 siezqquare miles) Anyone from any state with permission from a land owner can go to Minnesota and kill as many deer as you can kill no limit and do it for free. WITH a rifle...(in zones that are shotgun only in the regular gun season) And you don’t have to wear hunter orange!! Recap- with landowner permission, shoot as many deer as you want buck or doe,at no cost. With a rifle! COMING TO A STATE NEAR YOU!!! Wake up people!!!! c So your point is they shouldn't be doing this as a way to combat it?:
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Post by MuzzleLoader on Jan 7, 2019 11:36:15 GMT -5
Jay Gregory. Posted this on FB. For all of you sitting the fence on CWD, ponder this!! For the first two weeks of January In the expanded CWD ZONE in Southern Minnesota! (About 1000 siezqquare miles) Anyone from any state with permission from a land owner can go to Minnesota and kill as many deer as you can kill no limit and do it for free. WITH a rifle...(in zones that are shotgun only in the regular gun season) And you don’t have to wear hunter orange!! Recap- with landowner permission, shoot as many deer as you want buck or doe,at no cost. With a rifle! COMING TO A STATE NEAR YOU!!! Wake up people!!!! c So your point is they shouldn't be doing this as a way to combat it?: Please don’t put words in my mouth. Just another’s perspective on CWD by a well known hunter.
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Post by boonechaser on Jan 7, 2019 11:40:37 GMT -5
Jay Gregory. Posted this on FB. For all of you sitting the fence on CWD, ponder this!! For the first two weeks of January In the expanded CWD ZONE in Southern Minnesota! (About 1000 siezqquare miles) Anyone from any state with permission from a land owner can go to Minnesota and kill as many deer as you can kill no limit and do it for free. WITH a rifle...(in zones that are shotgun only in the regular gun season) And you don’t have to wear hunter orange!! Recap- with landowner permission, shoot as many deer as you want buck or doe,at no cost. With a rifle! COMING TO A STATE NEAR YOU!!! Wake up people!!!! c So your point is they shouldn't be doing this as a way to combat it?: Sounds like Indiana is adopting Illinois strategy , which seems to be working pretty well. 1st case 2009 and spread has been limited. In a nut shell Illinois plan is drastically reduce deer herd within 10 mile radius of any CWD infected positive deer. Then let herd naturally repopulate while continuing to test deer in that zone. Best bet is prevention IMO by making strict rules on transportation of live deer, mule deer and elk and their body parts into Indiana and continued testing along bordering states with positive results.
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Post by blackmouthcur on Jan 7, 2019 12:06:04 GMT -5
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Post by blackmouthcur on Jan 7, 2019 12:07:24 GMT -5
Wrong thread, I’ll try again.
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Post by blackmouthcur on Jan 7, 2019 12:10:32 GMT -5
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Post by boonechaser on Jan 7, 2019 12:29:04 GMT -5
Wrong thread, I’ll try again. Not really. Pretty sure most us us arnt eating deer brains from CWD deer nor injecting CWD cells into our brains. CWD is concerning of course and eventually will have to be addressed in Indiana.
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rjb
New Member
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Post by rjb on Jan 7, 2019 13:06:36 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me what MO is doing to keep their prevalence to 1-2%? It seems Indiana will be quick to jump on the Illinois kill ‘em all approach. Certainly this will work for a while, but it seems counterintuitive to want to increase hunter retention, fees and recruitment while eventually reducing opportunities. This seems like a costly band aid at best.
Has anything like earn a buck, and maybe increasing buck tags in those areas for a couple of years been tried anywhere? Along with banning mineral sites and mandatory testing?
What am I missing on the carcass issue? Do deer feed on brain and spine of other deer? Perhaps they do? Otherwise, how can it be spread this way?
It would have jumped to coyotes/wolves and other species by now if it was able and it has not.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 13:14:08 GMT -5
Taxidermist handle brains and fluids all the time. Have not heard of any taxidermist with CWD. They touch hundreds of deer.
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Post by parrothead on Jan 7, 2019 13:14:13 GMT -5
So how much does it cost the state of IN to test one deer?
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