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Post by oldhoyt on Oct 6, 2015 9:12:53 GMT -5
I'm looking at loading my modern 45/70 Marlin 1895 for the 1.800 case length, but trying to keep COAL near the standard of 2.550.
My current 300 gr jhp bullets would only seat around 0.167" into the case and I think that's not enough. I've seen some Barnes copper bullets that would seat around 0.340, and I think that would be fine.
I'm looking for load data using 300 or 350 gr barnes bullets (or similar such as Hornady all copper) with the 1.800 case if anyone has any experience with it.
Thanks!
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Post by HuntMeister on Oct 6, 2015 9:20:23 GMT -5
Have you perused the threads on INGO about the 1.8" 45-70?
I do not know if the answer is there or not but I do know there has been some discussion about it there.
A member that goes by djones I believe has done the 45-70 short and he always seems willing to share info.
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Post by esshup on Oct 6, 2015 14:30:05 GMT -5
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Post by btmidwest on Oct 6, 2015 19:59:17 GMT -5
I've played with the concept using the 458X2 American at 1.8 and the Barnes 300 TSX FN. They still seat pretty good using a COL of 2.510 and also using the Hornady 325gr FTX with a COL of 2.590. I got those COL lengths from their respective published load data for the 45-70 and 450 marlin. Shooting that crazy thing and the weight of my mauser is what got me to look at the Hoosier round. It's fun but can be too much of a good thing after some time on the bench or carrying it around. Yes I'm getting older too... Sorry I don't have the seating depths but they look good. JBM has a bullet length list if you don't have the bullets on hand (to measure) and want to run the numbers. Hope this can be of use.
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Post by btmidwest on Oct 6, 2015 20:52:59 GMT -5
Just reread your OP. The only difference I'm seeing is the missing brass with no change in capacity when using these longer bullets. A friend of mine who uses the 45-70 at 1.8 cleans his rifle after every 10 rounds to keep the crud out that is caused by the short brass.
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Post by oldhoyt on Oct 8, 2015 7:32:36 GMT -5
Just reread your OP. The only difference I'm seeing is the missing brass with no change in capacity when using these longer bullets. A friend of mine who uses the 45-70 at 1.8 cleans his rifle after every 10 rounds to keep the crud out that is caused by the short brass. True, assuming I can get load data for the bullet I will use. I ordered some Barnes TSX 300 gr flat point bullets yesterday. If I stay at standard COAL, they will seat 0.298, which I believe will be plenty. I don't plan to crimp necessarily, I don't think crimping is possible without modifying (shortening) my die. I would probably only load one in the chamber and one in the magazine to reduce the chance of setback. The Barnes website has load data for my bullet, but with different powders. Anyway, they gave a COAL of 2.515, which is shorter than my Lyman Manual indicates (2.550). I know my gun cycles fine at 2.550, so I'll go with that, and will probably start with around 45 gr of IMR 4198. |
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Post by btmidwest on Oct 9, 2015 20:16:49 GMT -5
My 458 X 1.8 is very similar to your case but in a bolt gun. Using H4198 I shot 45gr, 46gr, 46.5 gr. I tried 47gr but the bullet would not seat completely in the case so I backed off a half grain. I did use the shorter COL of 2.510 because the ogive is higher up on the 300 TSX FN than it is on the hornady 325 FTX. I was getting ready to try RL 7 when I got busy trying to get the Hoosier together. Which I am just now starting to learn.
I have to keep my sessions at the bench a little shorter, say 15 rounds with the little 458 bore or I begin to fight flinching. It's really not that bad but I just don't shoot enough these days. I hate it but it is just the way it is for now at least.
As they are similar projects I'll be interested in what you come up with in your Marlin.
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Post by oldhoyt on Oct 15, 2015 6:18:26 GMT -5
Loaded some bullets last night using Barnes 300 gr TSX Flat Nose over 45 gr IMR 4198:  These should do the trick. |
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Post by HuntMeister on Oct 15, 2015 6:29:57 GMT -5
Looking good!
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Post by oldhoyt on Oct 26, 2015 7:06:05 GMT -5
Took the 45/70 to the range. The 300 gr TSX shot very well. I don't have a chronograph but I have no doubt the 45 gr of 4198 is moving them right along. Recoil would indicate that too. Nothing severe, but certainly stout.
The gun shot as well as it ever has, which is typically holes touching or nearly so at 50 yds. The gun has a Williams peep with a large (bored out) aperture, so this is about all I can expect. Nice to have an open sighted gun to carry as an option! Also legal in MI where I do most of my hunting.
I had to cut the crimping die to get the shortened case far enough into the die to get a crimp at the seating depth I wanted. These cartridges are right at the standard COAL of 2.500, with about 0.297 seating depth.
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Post by HuntMeister on Oct 26, 2015 9:31:28 GMT -5
Sounds like you are ready to go!
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Post by omegahunter on Oct 27, 2015 7:29:45 GMT -5
Nice of Barnes to put a crimp groove in the right place.  |
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Post by oldhoyt on Oct 28, 2015 11:53:33 GMT -5
Yeah, that helped. I hear some are using a "factory crimp" die but I don't have one.
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Post by omegahunter on Oct 28, 2015 13:53:40 GMT -5
Yeah, that helped. I hear some are using a "factory crimp" die but I don't have one. The FCD just helps when you end up at a COL that doesn't match a groove (which is most of the time for me). But using bolt guns, I never crimp anyway. |
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Post by oldhoyt on Oct 28, 2015 15:40:41 GMT -5
I'm thinking it may eliminate the need to cut down the standard 45/70 crimping die, which is what I did, though I'm not certain if the FCD would not also need to be modified. Perhaps a FCD made for another 45 cal. cartridge could work too. Either way, I'm able to make working ammo for the shortened round. Will be nice to get the 45/70 back into the woods this year.
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Post by tomthreetoes on Dec 8, 2015 16:38:40 GMT -5
I'm curious if you had a chance to try your new load this season. I have used the Hornady 350gr. bullet loaded to a shorter OAL, don't remember off hand how much shorter, but it fed fine in my Marlin. The problem I encountered was the bullets would sometimes end up off center in the case. I used IMR 4198 also but a milder load of 38 gr. that grouped right at 1 1/2" @ 100yds. From your data I might be able to add another couple grains of powder. I shot a doe with my load and she didn't run 40 yds.
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