|
baiting
May 14, 2015 19:20:10 GMT -5
Post by jimstc on May 14, 2015 19:20:10 GMT -5
No desire to hunt over bait...don't think that around the areas I hunt it would be any advantage especially for mature deer. I would like the ability to run mineral sites without worry of running afoul of the current grey areas. Wouldn't hunt the mineral sites.... Exactly. In my mind it is about helping out the deer from a nutrition standpoint. My objective is to enhance their survival and growth. In the meantime if I attract them to my place, fine. If I don't, I am still improving the quality of Indiana's deer population, at least in my area. Win, win by my thinking. Been wrong before and always willing to learn.
|
|
|
Post by nfalls116 on May 14, 2015 19:36:58 GMT -5
I don't feel the need to bait but like the idea of mineral licks. I do some hunting over farm fields feels like baiting already.
|
|
|
Post by thecommissioner on May 15, 2015 8:14:04 GMT -5
Thirty years ago I was hunting in Northern Michigan on club land. It was heavily forested and members still-hunted out of ground blinds. IIRC, Michigan didn't allow hunting from tree stands during gun season, thus the ground blinds. In effect, no one was walking around the woods (hundreds of acres) to stir up the deer and make them move.
Everyone baited in front of their blinds including me. In the weeks leading up to opening day, it was nothing for me to put out 50 lbs of feed per day. Everything from sugar beets to apples to carrots to pumpkins, etc. It was amazing how fast the deer would devour the bait.
In the four years I hunted there, I never shot a buck over the bait. What the bait did was bring in the does and fawns and they served the role of decoys for the bucks. The bucks would stand well off in the woods watching the does and then come into feed after dark when hunting ended for the day.
I am grateful to have had the opportunity to hunt with a bait pile even though I don't need it anymore even if it was legal in Indiana. Why? I am pretty much a self-taught hunter and all those hours sitting in a blind watching deer up close was highly instructional about deer behavior. It made me a much better hunter because I was able to see just how wary and alert the deer are. The years of hunting prior to the bait/ground blind was spent stumbling around the woods scaring everything away. Without the opportunity to 'go to school' on deer with the bait, I am not sure I'd be hunting deer today because it was so frustrating in the pre-bait seasons.
|
|
|
baiting
May 15, 2015 12:42:16 GMT -5
Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on May 15, 2015 12:42:16 GMT -5
Mr. Miller said something that makes sense to me, "Just call it what it is." I'd love to have a food plot to bait deer, and I would think that's exactly what I was doing. It wouldn't bother me in the least to call it baiting. If I planted the food plot, but hoofed it through the woods to my tree stand, would this be real hunting??? Why doesn't hunting over a food plot have a stigma? I really don't understand. It can't be money or effort. I think people just don't want to call it baiting, because they do it. It's intent/impact is indeed the same. I'd LOVE to be able to do it. The joy is relative to the effort and harvest of the individual. I just think it's a little hypocritical to call hunting over a bag of corn baiting if the individual hunts over a food plot. It is what it is. Absolutely none of this would make any difference to me if it weren't for the strong opinions against baiting when one hunts a food plot. It's a legal privilege to have the ability to put in a food plot, one I cannot afford. Is it the socioeconomical status that one wants to maintain? A man with means to purchase land can have a food plot, but a man without the means cannot put down a bag of corn? What is the REAL issue?
|
|
|
Post by trophyparadise on May 15, 2015 12:52:58 GMT -5
Mr. Miller said something that makes sense to me, "Just call it what it is." I'd love to have a food plot to bait deer, and I would think that's exactly what I was doing. It wouldn't bother me in the least to call it baiting. If I planted the food plot, but hoofed it through the woods to my tree stand, would this be real hunting??? Why doesn't hunting over a food plot have a stigma? I really don't understand. It can't be money or effort. I think people just don't want to call it baiting, because they do it. It's intent/impact is indeed the same. I'd LOVE to be able to do it. The joy is relative to the effort and harvest of the individual. I just think it's a little hypocritical to call hunting over a bag of corn baiting if the individual hunts over a food plot. It is what it is. Absolutely none of this would make any difference to me if it weren't for the strong opinions against baiting when one hunts a food plot. It's a legal privilege to have the ability to put in a food plot, one I cannot afford. Is it the socioeconomical status that one wants to maintain? A man with means to purchase land can have a food plot, but a man without the means cannot put down a bag of corn? What is the REAL issue? I agree with your premise of calling things what they are...and I'm also not opposed to legalizing bait....but food plots are not the same as bait. Not by a long shot. Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=852914431431752
|
|
|
baiting
May 15, 2015 13:31:02 GMT -5
Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on May 15, 2015 13:31:02 GMT -5
I agree with your premise of calling things what they are...and I'm also not opposed to legalizing bait....but food plots are not the same as bait. Not by a long shot. Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=852914431431752Well, I read what you are saying, but it doesn't come close to explaining it to me. Help me understand. Is there a definition that I fail to understand? Help me, just don't regurgitate something that I'm saying that I don't understand. Bait is put down with an intent to attract deer. Food plot is intended to attract deer, yes? If not, then it is to provide nutrition. Ok, if this is the intent, why hunt over it?
|
|
|
Post by MuzzleLoader on May 15, 2015 13:45:03 GMT -5
I agree with your premise of calling things what they are...and I'm also not opposed to legalizing bait....but food plots are not the same as bait. Not by a long shot. Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=852914431431752Well, I read what you are saying, but it doesn't come close to explaining it to me. Help me understand. Is there a definition that I fail to understand? Help me, just don't regurgitate something that I'm saying that I don't understand. Bait is put down with an intent to attract deer. Food plot is intended to attract deer, yes? If not, then it is to provide nutrition. Ok, if this is the intent, why hunt over it? Because there is no difference Jon. They are one in a same. You hunt over/around both with the intent of drawing in deer to shoot.
|
|
|
Post by jimstc on May 15, 2015 14:35:42 GMT -5
I agree with Jon and muzzleloader. They are the same. I put in a lot more effort to put in a food plot but it has the same objectives as putting out a ton of corn over the winter, as I do every winter. Nutrition, lower winter mortality due to starvation, a stronger herd and to ATTRACT DEER THAT I INTEND TO KILL. I don't believe that a food plot is more ethical than bagged corn. Just my opinion. Jon, if you have pasture on your place then you can have a food plot. You don't need a plow, disc, spreader or drill. Just walk through the pasture and throw some alfalfa seed or any other enhancing seed that attracts deer. Do it now and it will take care of itself. I use Beck's Ultimate Pasture mix. As I recall I spent $280 on enough to do 8 acres. You don't even need to spend that. The radishes and oats I put out as a cover crop last fall were a third the price.
|
|
|
baiting
May 15, 2015 14:52:31 GMT -5
Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on May 15, 2015 14:52:31 GMT -5
I agree with Jon and muzzleloader. They are the same. I put in a lot more effort to put in a food plot but it has the same objectives as putting out a ton of corn over the winter, as I do every winter. Nutrition, lower winter mortality due to starvation, a stronger herd and to ATTRACT DEER THAT I INTEND TO KILL. I don't believe that a food plot is more ethical than bagged corn. Just my opinion. Jon, if you have pasture on your place then you can have a food plot. You don't need a plow, disc, spreader or drill. Just walk through the pasture and throw some alfalfa seed or any other enhancing seed that attracts deer. Do it now and it will take care of itself. I use Beck's Ultimate Pasture mix. As I recall I spent $280 on enough to do 8 acres. You don't even need to spend that. The radishes and oats I put out as a cover crop last fall were a third the price. Thank you Jim! I think it's wonderful what you do with your land, and I think it's wonderful that it attracts deer. Nothing is lost or tainted if you shoot one in the middle of that food. You've worked hard on that land, and should be proud of the result and any harvest. I worked hard keeping the raccoon out of my corn without much success, and it was expensive to feed them. I wish I could have kept it going through the hunting season. I physically can't do it at all now, but think I could if I had an ATV. As the commissioner said, the mature bucks stay away until dark. When we see them in the day, they aren't thinking about food. My biggest buck on camera last year wouldn't come to the feeder. He'd come 20yds out to check out what was going on as the other deer fed, but he never came to it. Of course, he was bedded down in a corn field. He didn't have to leave unless he wanted to. Jim, I will talk with my friend to see what he thinks about me planting some feed. He does have some open area on top, but I've always been afraid to ask him about it. He lets it grow up high and then a farmer bails it. I just need 1/2 acre close to the woods. One of these days, I'll get up the nerve. He's a great guy, but very quiet and private. He's lets me come and go as I please, but I don't want to push my luck and lose the woods I have.
|
|
|
baiting
May 15, 2015 15:33:04 GMT -5
Post by jimstc on May 15, 2015 15:33:04 GMT -5
Jon, If he is baling it, most anything you over seed will improve the quality of his hay: alfalfa, oats, timothy grass, orchard grass, rye, wheat etc. If it was my land and you offered to do that, I would consider it a favor.
Edit to add: if you want be real beneficial to the owner, go to your local CPS (Crop Production Services) and get a soil sampler. Take a sample to them and they will give you specific fertilizer recommendations. Cost is free. If you are only going to plant a half acre plot, the cost is nominal for fertilizer. Do an acre and it is still cheap.
|
|
|
Post by trophyparadise on May 15, 2015 16:09:12 GMT -5
I agree with your premise of calling things what they are...and I'm also not opposed to legalizing bait....but food plots are not the same as bait. Not by a long shot. Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=852914431431752Well, I read what you are saying, but it doesn't come close to explaining it to me. Help me understand. Is there a definition that I fail to understand? Help me, just don't regurgitate something that I'm saying that I don't understand. Bait is put down with an intent to attract deer. Food plot is intended to attract deer, yes? If not, then it is to provide nutrition. Ok, if this is the intent, why hunt over it? The best way I can explain the difference to me is that bait is an instant gratification form of attraction, where food plots can and do have long term benefits to all wildlife in the area if maintained. Yes attraction is the goal with both, but the reasons for planting food plots are much farther reaching. I do have plots I don't hunt. I have a plot smack dab in the middle of my sanctuary that I never go into....why? Because my main goal for plots isn't to kill deer, or even nutrition, although both of those are very important to me. I plant plots primarily to keep deer living on my property and not the neighbors. It's also conceivable that the plants in a food plot could occur in that state naturally....shelled corn doesn't randomly sprout in piles in the fall like mushrooms....that's why you don't see many big bucks killed over bait, but they will come to a food plot. They know what's natural and what isn't. Attraction, variety, sustained nutrition...the benefits for food plots are endless....the only benefit from a bait pile is the instant gratification when a deer walks into it and you kill it. Good food plots have the ability to alter travel patterns and even home ranges of deer. It becomes a part of their life. Don't misunderstand where I'm coming from...I'm not anti bait...where I grew up corn is a verb;D Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=852914431431752
|
|
|
baiting
May 15, 2015 17:40:25 GMT -5
Post by jimstc on May 15, 2015 17:40:25 GMT -5
trophy, very good explanation of your point of view. Only one thought to disagree, at harvest time the corn fields do have leftover corn on the ground. Can't say with experience that it does or does not attract deer. Logically, I expect it does. So it does sorta sprout in piles. Hence, my justification to feed corn during the winter. At least to my way of thinking. They are used to it and have eaten it for years here in bean and corn country. I assure you that I am not antagonistic to your point of view. Thanks for sharing your knowledge
|
|
|
baiting
May 15, 2015 20:00:42 GMT -5
Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on May 15, 2015 20:00:42 GMT -5
I don't see the instant gratification. For months and months I took bags of corn to my site. Every time I went I had to fix my feeder from where the raccoon tore it up. There was nothing instant about it, and it was expensive.
Ten days before hunting season it was all gone and so were the deer. I'd say there was no gratification other than the fat raccoon.
There should be no stigma in continuing the work I was doing through the hunting season.
|
|
|
Post by chubwub on May 18, 2015 9:59:47 GMT -5
Yes, I would try baiting, especially in areas that are not condusive to growing food plots. I also would enjoy being able to put a mineral site out for the deer to use year round without all the BS legislation from the DNR about it.
It would also be nice to just be able to laugh and continue to hunt and not worry about your hunting spot being shut down for 10 days when someone purposely tries to sabotage you by throwing corn all around your stand. Mark my words, the day will come when the majority of people who are against hunting start figuring this out and do it on a routine basis...
|
|
|
baiting
May 18, 2015 11:29:31 GMT -5
Post by dbd870 on May 18, 2015 11:29:31 GMT -5
Yes, I would try baiting, especially in areas that are not condusive to growing food plots. I also would enjoy being able to put a mineral site out for the deer to use year round without all the BS legislation from the DNR about it. It would also be nice to just be able to laugh and continue to hunt and not worry about your hunting spot being shut down for 10 days when someone purposely tries to sabotage you by throwing corn all around your stand. Mark my words, the day will come when the majority of people who are against hunting start figuring this out and do it on a routine basis...I could see it happening, not just the anti's but any disgruntled individual. I agree that is another reason to change the regulations.
|
|