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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 21, 2015 9:05:23 GMT -5
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Apr 21, 2015 11:56:32 GMT -5
Do they have a Z entry level for me?
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Post by windingwinds on Apr 21, 2015 21:16:13 GMT -5
Or it could be not everyone needs their buck in a book. Not that I have shot one with 170" antlers, but if I ever do, it's not going in a book. Seems to be a trend of increased hunters in it for more the total experience and the meat.
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Post by tynimiller on Apr 22, 2015 9:12:15 GMT -5
I will keep this short as I'm working on a article for this very topic...I suspect some of the following are the reason:
-I think windingwinds touched on this one for sure. The growth of the whitetail community is switching from one needing the book validation to the overall experience...and let's be honest someone can get more validation posting and sharing and tweeting their booner picture than they ever would simply having it put in a book. So the need for that validation while still present just having it validated by paper isn't the same as it was 5 to 10 years ago.
-I also think despite the idea I listed above there are more P&Y caliber bucks being shot now more than ever. I think this is due to the growth in the mature buck mindset of hunters. More and more hunters are looking to capitalize on a bigger and better buck than simply a yearling. So those same hunters that 3 years ago would shoot that basket 6 and be done are now waiting...and in areas now a lot of the Booner potential 2 1/2, 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 year old bucks are getting taken before they reach their Booner status. Is this happening everywhere...no but I do believe to an extent it is occurring.
-Loss of hunting ground...leases are getting bigger, outfitters are buying more ground and developments are popping up everywhere. Less hunter density means a drop in B&C taken of course...
Just a few thoughts.
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Post by steiny on Apr 24, 2015 6:36:16 GMT -5
With all of the TV hunting shows, deer hunting expos, etc. I think more people would enter a head in B&C now than ever.
It's my opinion that there just aren't as many big ones around anymore. The popular DNR focus seems to be on "quantity of deer" and "opportunities for all" rather than on quality animals. Add in the loss of habitat and there aren't many bucks making it to maturity.
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Post by swilk on Apr 24, 2015 7:05:07 GMT -5
Some actual numbers would have been nice to look at ... a single year does not a trend make. An anomaly maybe but a trend no.
Lets see what the years 2013-2017 bring .... then we can discuss what may or may not be happening.
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Post by js2397 on Apr 24, 2015 7:12:19 GMT -5
I think it all stems from the fact that Indiana now allows crossbows. They are so efficient at taking deer that all of the rest of the Midwest has experienced a decline in B&C entries.
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Post by dbd870 on Apr 24, 2015 11:15:45 GMT -5
I think it all stems from the fact that Indiana now allows crossbows. They are so efficient at taking deer that all of the rest of the Midwest has experienced a decline in B&C entries. That reminded me of this video: (including a mention of our own Woody Williams!) www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5xhcCOVpJY
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Post by jjas on Apr 24, 2015 11:44:30 GMT -5
I think it all stems from the fact that Indiana now allows crossbows. They are so efficient at taking deer that all of the rest of the Midwest has experienced a decline in B&C entries. I'm sure there are some who truly believe that....... BTW, you can't forget the gun hunters....it's their fault too.......oh, and the IDNR and the NRC....and Woody....don't forget Woody...he has to shoulder his share of the blame.... .
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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 24, 2015 12:07:01 GMT -5
I think it all stems from the fact that Indiana now allows crossbows. They are so efficient at taking deer that all of the rest of the Midwest has experienced a decline in B&C entries. That reminded me of this video: (including a mention of our own Woody Williams!) www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5xhcCOVpJYWoody Williams AKA Willie on AT... The Source was a dandy.... A true self appointed Elitist .
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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 24, 2015 12:08:33 GMT -5
I think it all stems from the fact that Indiana now allows crossbows. They are so efficient at taking deer that all of the rest of the Midwest has experienced a decline in B&C entries. I'm sure there are some who truly believe that....... BTW, you can't forget the gun hunters....it's their fault too.......oh, and the IDNR and the NRC....and Woody....don't forget Woody...he has to shoulder his share of the blame.... . .....and PCRs...and Youth Weekend...and Youth Weekend to shoot BUCKS!...and Youth Weekend to shoot the county limit....etc, etc, etc....
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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 24, 2015 12:36:25 GMT -5
If one must really know the truth it is....
All the naysayers were right and the SKY DID FALL!
It fell and killed off half the herd starting with the bigger bucks..
It happened in the middle of the night and sleeping folks just thought it was a thunderstorm ..
A truly sad day.....
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Post by jimstc on Apr 25, 2015 12:40:39 GMT -5
Or it could be not everyone needs their buck in a book. Not that I have shot one with 170" antlers, but if I ever do, it's not going in a book. Seems to be a trend of increased hunters in it for more the total experience and the meat. Absolutely agree. I don't need or want the validation of B&C. Got a western KY hunt scheduled for 11/2015 with the goal of taking a mature buck. If I am successful, great. A bunch of meat and a nice rack or head to mount for my own pleasure.
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Post by swilk on Apr 25, 2015 14:42:04 GMT -5
Who among us has actually killed a 170"+ net typical whitetail? Officially measured of course....
Entered or not?
Just curious.....seen several online conversations where folks say they wouldn't enter them but I wonder how many of those folks have actually killed one.
I have a few P&Y caliber deer with non being officially scored and entered but I've never killed a 170. That is just a very special number and I don't know for sure I wouldn't enter it.
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Post by jimstc on Apr 25, 2015 16:47:16 GMT -5
Not me. My best was a 10 point at near 200 lbs. Nonetheless, I feel no need or compulsion to put a mature buck in the B&C books. I sure as heck am trying to get one, but for my own personal bucket list. Don't have the need to get recognition for it when I do.....
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Post by swilk on Apr 25, 2015 17:06:41 GMT -5
But.... To be fair.... That's like someone who's never won the lottery claiming the money wouldn't change them at all. You just never know till you walk in those shoes.
I can say I'll never enter one in P&Y because I've got some and I haven't entered them but if I were to kill a potential world record typical would I enter it and take the good and the bad that comes along with it? If it weren't a world class but still netted over 170 would I enter it? Don't know....hope to have to make that decision some day.
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Post by onebentarrow on Apr 25, 2015 18:40:22 GMT -5
Who among us has actually killed a 170"+ net typical whitetail? Officially measured of course.... Entered or not? Just curious.....seen several online conversations where folks say they wouldn't enter them but I wonder how many of those folks have actually killed one. I have a few P&Y caliber deer with non being officially scored and entered but I've never killed a 170. That is just a very special number and I don't know for sure I wouldn't enter it. Does 169 7/8 count? I was not gona pay to have my name put it in the book but the gentleman stated that the "book" is to recognize the animal and not me. After a lot of discussion I did decide to put it in as it is almost a perfect deer. Only 2 2/8s in in deductions
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Post by jimstc on Apr 25, 2015 18:41:32 GMT -5
But.... To be fair.... That's like someone who's never won the lottery claiming the money wouldn't change them at all. You just never know till you walk in those shoes. I can say I'll never enter one in P&Y because I've got some and I haven't entered them but if I were to kill a potential world record typical would I enter it and take the good and the bad that comes along with it? If it weren't a world class but still netted over 170 would I enter it? Don't know....hope to have to make that decision some day. Whatever. You live in your world as I will mine....
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Post by swilk on Apr 25, 2015 18:49:01 GMT -5
Who among us has actually killed a 170"+ net typical whitetail? Officially measured of course.... Entered or not? Just curious.....seen several online conversations where folks say they wouldn't enter them but I wonder how many of those folks have actually killed one. I have a few P&Y caliber deer with non being officially scored and entered but I've never killed a 170. That is just a very special number and I don't know for sure I wouldn't enter it. Does 169 7/8 count? I was not gona pay to have my name put it in the book but the gentleman stated that the "book" is to recognize the animal and not me. After a lot of discussion I did decide to put it in as it is almost a perfect deer. Only 2 2/8s in in deductions How long does that entry stay in? 160-169 7/8 is the awards book or something isn't it? Only 2" and change is amazing with that many inches....heck of a deer.
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Post by swilk on Apr 25, 2015 18:50:15 GMT -5
Just realized you might be talking P&Y?
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