|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Mar 10, 2015 7:55:37 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Mar 10, 2015 9:11:19 GMT -5
I'm kinda on fence. Legal in a lot of states and probably wouldn't have a major impact on harvest number's IMO. Still the thought of someone poring out a bucket of attractant and hunting over it to me is just a lazy way of deer hunting. JMO
|
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Mar 10, 2015 9:49:14 GMT -5
I believe it can or at minimum holds the potential to decrease the overall hunting ability amongst our ranks. Hunting skills are not sharpened or gained by merely dumping "candy" on the ground and hunting over it....I get that is possibly too far dilluted down but it is in my thoughts.
Personally I wish they would lift the ban of true minerals (not salt blocks or the products which are salt blocks like trophy rock).
|
|
|
|
Post by BOWn Hunter on Mar 10, 2015 12:44:42 GMT -5
I'm all for having attractants out during the off-season but once season comes it its not really hunting. To really feel proud of a kill, I want to put myself on THEIR route. I don't feel that hunting over a pile of corn is considered hunting. That's just feeding them but that's just my opinion!
|
|
|
|
Post by chubwub on Mar 11, 2015 14:39:37 GMT -5
Corn vs food plot vs fruit/oak trees. They all serve the same function and purpose to me, and 2 of them are perfectly legal and most of the time a lot cheaper and a heck of a lot less work in the long run. Why one is magically more unsporting than the other 2 will forever remain a mystery to me. I can control the where, when, whats, and whys of all 3 either through a timer, electric fence, wire cage or any number of legal methods.
QDMA is chock full of nothing but articles about to get deer to congregate on your property, through such methods as creating deadfall mazes, killing predators to increase survival rates, hinge cutting trees to create artificially large amounts of browse, strategic food plots with electric fences, creating bedding areas, etc etc. Everything on there is all about making the deer move where you want them to move and building numbers.
About the only argument that I don't feel like is complete BS for why we shouldn't place out artificial bait is that we should be cultivating the land to be beneficial to wildlife in more permanent ways. Everything else we do to attract wildlife has the exact same consequences as artificial bait... and I don't see us tearing down crop fields, not planting fruit trees or refraining from doing food plots in order to make wildlife less dependent upon us any time soon.
|
|
|
|
Post by MuzzleLoader on Mar 11, 2015 18:01:13 GMT -5
Corn vs food plot vs fruit/oak trees. They all serve the same function and purpose to me, and 2 of them are perfectly legal and most of the time a lot cheaper and a heck of a lot less work in the long run. Why one is magically more unsporting than the other 2 will forever remain a mystery to me. I can control the where, when, whats, and whys of all 3 either through a timer, electric fence, wire cage or any number of legal methods. QDMA is chock full of nothing but articles about to get deer to congregate on your property, through such methods as creating deadfall mazes, killing predators to increase survival rates, hinge cutting trees to create artificially large amounts of browse, strategic food plots with electric fences, creating bedding areas, etc etc. Everything on there is all about making the deer move where you want them to move and building numbers. About the only argument that I don't feel like is complete BS for why we shouldn't place out artificial bait is that we should be cultivating the land to be beneficial to wildlife in more permanent ways. Everything else we do to attract wildlife has the exact same consequences as artificial bait... and I don't see us tearing down crop fields, not planting fruit trees or refraining from doing food plots in order to make wildlife less dependent upon us any time soon. Exactly right. No difference between throwing corn on the ground or planting it. Doesn't matter, baiting is planting a food plot or throwing down apples. They both serve the same purpose of bringing in the deer to a certain area. Just because you plant corn doesn't makes it better than spreading it out in the ground with a seed spreader. No difference. its all perception and all the same. |
|
|
|
Post by trophyparadise on Mar 12, 2015 7:42:18 GMT -5
Corn vs food plot vs fruit/oak trees. They all serve the same function and purpose to me, and 2 of them are perfectly legal and most of the time a lot cheaper and a heck of a lot less work in the long run. Why one is magically more unsporting than the other 2 will forever remain a mystery to me. I can control the where, when, whats, and whys of all 3 either through a timer, electric fence, wire cage or any number of legal methods. QDMA is chock full of nothing but articles about to get deer to congregate on your property, through such methods as creating deadfall mazes, killing predators to increase survival rates, hinge cutting trees to create artificially large amounts of browse, strategic food plots with electric fences, creating bedding areas, etc etc. Everything on there is all about making the deer move where you want them to move and building numbers. About the only argument that I don't feel like is complete BS for why we shouldn't place out artificial bait is that we should be cultivating the land to be beneficial to wildlife in more permanent ways. Everything else we do to attract wildlife has the exact same consequences as artificial bait... and I don't see us tearing down crop fields, not planting fruit trees or refraining from doing food plots in order to make wildlife less dependent upon us any time soon. Exactly right. No difference between throwing corn on the ground or planting it. Doesn't matter, baiting is planting a food plot or throwing down apples. They both serve the same purpose of bringing in the deer to a certain area. Just because you plant corn doesn't makes it better than spreading it out in the ground with a seed spreader. No difference. its all perception and all the same. X3! The study in Virginia wasn't the first one like that. Back in 2004 a similar study was done in nc. baiting does not necessarily increase the odds of shooting a deer any more than does a food plot or hunting a funnel. I think it has it's place. In most of Indiana it wouldn't help because of all the agriculture. The places it helps imo are areas with huge tracts of timber that keep the deer spread out and food plots are difficult to put in...like in western va or WV. A bait pile will help concentrate deer activity. Nothing wrong with that...provided its a legal means Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" www.facebook.com/trophyparadise |
|
|
|
Post by budd on Mar 12, 2015 8:15:36 GMT -5
trophyparadise, "baiting" is allowed in Wisconsin also.
|
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Mar 12, 2015 9:25:07 GMT -5
I have numerous friends from places that allow baiting; Kansas, Wisconsin and other states. None of them would ever state their bait piles are like food plots. They can control exactly when and where the bait is placed and the bait pile is only a few feet wide; resulting in a highly predictable spot where the deer will be. Food plots unless only like 4 or 5 feet circles are entirely different animals all together.
I went and got to hunt Kansas this past year and undoubtedly realized fast setting over the bait one hunt that it is a vastly different game than hunting over his foodplots. Yes, you can fence off an entire food plot as mentioned with electric fences....however unless you are making these fences 10 feet tall the deer will jump them...and do so where and when they desire.
I feel there are better arguments to be made for legalizing bait then the lame "same as food plot" concept. Talk to those who do both, and more of them will feel the same as my buddies do, both provide food but that is about where the similarities stop.
|
|
|
|
Post by windingwinds on Mar 12, 2015 10:50:50 GMT -5
I have Apple trees in front yard. This past year the deer still came through there late fall-early winter even though it was a bad crop year and no apples were left. Taking bait out doesn't change deer behavior. The baiting laws need to either be dropped or clarified. The way they are now your antihunting neighbor can place a salt block on property line and the CO can then ticket you for hunting in a bait influenced area.
|
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Mar 12, 2015 11:06:36 GMT -5
I have Apple trees in front yard. This past year the deer still came through there late fall-early winter even though it was a bad crop year and no apples were left. Taking bait out doesn't change deer behavior. The baiting laws need to either be dropped or clarified. The way they are now your antihunting neighbor can place a salt block on property line and the CO can then ticket you for hunting in a bait influenced area. Only a XXXXX of a CO would do this unless hunter is obviously gearing his hunting around it. I would simply email DNR so you have it on record notifying them of situation. You legally are breaking no law on your parcel, but can easily avoid confusion by full disclosure. |
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Mar 12, 2015 17:33:12 GMT -5
Comparing hunting over a bait vs. hunting over a food plot is kinda silly people. No it is not the same thing. Try planting and maintaining several acre's of food source's for wildlife and then get back to me on how they are the same as poring some attractant on the ground to hunt over. Not a good argument IMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by chubwub on Mar 13, 2015 14:04:25 GMT -5
Of course there are some differences between food plots and bait stations in terms of effort, cost and longevity. I have seen some very elaborate bait station pictures from down south.... However, my first argument that the consequences of food plots are exactly the same as baiting remains. 1.)They both make wildlife congregate in a smaller area leading to more frequent interaction and direct and indirect contact, competition and aggression. 2.)They both substantially elevate animal condition leading to increased survival and reproduction which can increase the size of the population beyond it's natural carrying capacity. 3.)They both alter natural animal movement patterns and distribution. And of course you can control your food plot just like you can a bait pile. You chose where to plant it. You chose what kinds of forage you want to grow so that it is at it's prime during hunting season. You create brush piles around it so that deer "naturally" funnel through a certain area to feed and if you know what you are doing, it's quite easy to make deer very predictable as to where they will emerge to use the food plot. Never mind the fact that you possibly destroyed several acres of natural vegetation/timber, sprayed the area with herbicide and changed the soil content with fertilizers to create your food plot for just the intended benefit of a couple species that you want to kill. By that argument, a bait station is far less damaging to the environment. I mean seriously... look at this, he literally bulldozed an entire section of a forest to kill ONE deer LOL. www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qee5Oulm9k If the only argument that people can come up with that they don't like baiting because he felt like his neighbor put in less effort to kill a deer... welll...... crossbows vs longbow, guns vs bows, primitive vs modern. We are coming back full circle to the same argument again. Someone doesn't like what they other guy is doing because he is upset that someone else did it a different way that he did. |
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Mar 13, 2015 23:27:41 GMT -5
That is far from the only arguement against baiting. Only stating that comparing baiting to providing food source's/plot's is not a good comparison IMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by dbd870 on Mar 14, 2015 7:07:58 GMT -5
Food plots and baiting while perhaps not identical are close enough that differences don't matter to me and there is nothing that is going to change my mind. (as far as the"ethics" issue; which is nothing but personal opinion amyways)
|
|
|
|
Post by salt on Mar 27, 2015 9:25:03 GMT -5
I have said this on here before, I hunt in Ohio where baiting is legal. I hunt a county that is not generally known for high deer population. However, the particular farm I hunt has more than enough deer. My woods is only about 10 acres and is totally surrounded by crops. There are not very many other woodlots in the area. I have an underground natural gas pipeline that cuts through my woods. I have turned the pipeline area into a nice food plot of chicory and clover. It is about 15 yards wide and 60 yards long. My tree stand sits right on the edge of the food plot. 10 yards over my left shoulder (in the woods) is where my bait pile is located. I have used a product called Lucky Buck for at least the last 6 years. I keep it active from about April through October. I also usually put apples and/or pears out during hunting season.
It has been my experience that I have shot and observed many more deer in the food plot than at the bait pile. I would say probably 5:1. But, that is just my opinion. Flood plots are more effective than bait piles.
Two years ago, I made the dumb mistake of putting Lucky Buck on the ground on my Indiana lease. Because I abide by the law, I went out 2 weeks before season started with a shovel and an ATV with a trailer. I ended up digging a 12 inch hole that was 10 foot by 10 foot in an attempt to remove all the effected soil. I could see the discolorment in the soil from the Lucky Buck. I was totally surprised by how much it seeped into the ground. I then hauled the dirt away and dug a new hole to fill in the original hole I dug. It was a lot of work in the hot September sun. The point I am trying to make is that just about every store with a sporting good section is selling "deer attractants." Maybe there are a lot more smart guys out there who have found a better way to get rid of the bad soil when they spread these minerals that seep into the soil. Or maybe there are a lot of guys who don't bother and just break the law. Either make baiting with minerals legal in Indiana or ban department stores from selling it. The only thing the law is doing is keeping the honest guys honest.
|
|
|
|
Post by trophyparadise on Mar 27, 2015 13:43:50 GMT -5
Just throwing this question out there...of all those who have responded that they don't consider baiting to be "hunting".....have you ever personally tried it? I ask because perception is often different than reality. The overwhelming majority of hunters that oppose baiting live in states that don't allow it, while the majority of hunters who support it live in states where it is legal. Are you saying that hunters in Texas, Ohio, Kansas, Virginia, etc are less skilled hunters than those here in the Midwest? I am one of the few that I feel has an accurate view of both sides...I live here now, but I grew up in and learned to hunt in a state where baiting is legal, so I've seen both sides. Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" www.facebook.com/trophyparadise |
|
|
|
Post by dbd870 on Mar 27, 2015 14:00:43 GMT -5
I've hunted bait and no bait states and it just isn't a big deal to me. We rarely bother with bait in KY - I've never seen a good buck at a bait pile and I'm at least as likely to see deer by knowing how the move as by putting out bait there. The only reason I'd be in favor of allowing it here is too eliminate the gray areas by what we have now.
|
|
|
|
Post by trophyparadise on Mar 27, 2015 14:09:09 GMT -5
I've hunted bait and no bait states and it just isn't a big deal to me. We rarely bother with bait in KY - I've never seen a good buck at a bait pile and I'm at least as likely to see deer by knowing how the move as by putting out bait there. The only reason I'd be in favor of allowing it here is too eliminate the gray areas by what we have now. You sir just made the exact point I was alluding to. Big bucks rarely visit bait piles during the day. They know it isn't natural. Hunters know that too. The guys who hunt over bait for the most part know the likelihood of killing a big one is slim, but maybe they hunt for meat. Almost without exception, the guys who consistently kill big bucks in states where bait is legal don't hunt over bait. Trophy Paradise Habitat Consulting "Trophies are built from the ground up" www.facebook.com/trophyparadise |
|
|
|
Post by chubwub on Mar 27, 2015 14:09:43 GMT -5
|
|
