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Post by dbd870 on Feb 24, 2015 11:53:08 GMT -5
good lord my tongue is hurting ..... Is that from holding it? I have refrained from getting involved other than as a moderator- mine is sore as well.
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Post by ms660 on Feb 24, 2015 11:53:48 GMT -5
How many inches= a small one. How many inches = a medium one. How many inches = a large one. Do you have extra large size you can hunt to? If so how many inches = an extra large size. When I go to McDonalds and order a Big Mac meal they ask what size I want.
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Post by drs on Feb 24, 2015 12:01:34 GMT -5
good lord my tongue is hurting ..... I am getting a headache.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Feb 24, 2015 12:02:03 GMT -5
...How many inches= a small one. How many inches = a medium one. How many inches = a large one... how many inches = an extra large size... Haha, that's all those high-fence kind of guys think about!!
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Post by hunterman on Feb 24, 2015 12:04:20 GMT -5
I guess it all comes down to the definition of fair chase. If you can etch that definition in stone where everyone agrees then this discussion would be moot. However, I do not think you will see in the definition the word fence anywhere., nor baiting, nor use of dogs, nor high powered rifles. Canned Hunting occurs on both side and fair chase occurs on both sides. I agree killing a trophy on a preserve is NOT the same thing as killing a trophy on the outside, but fair chase is a different part of that discussion.
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Post by drs on Feb 24, 2015 12:07:57 GMT -5
DRS- I would venture to guess, and can probably prove. I have done more for sportsmen, wildlife and the hunting heritage in one season than you have done in a lifetime. If your arguments had any validity to them and were as you thought they were then preserves wouldn't exist. How can they be the fastest growing segment of the hunting industry then. I seriously doubt your claim. Your kind does more to damage "Fair Chase" sport hunting, then helped it. Your kind will finally destroy our sport too, if allowed.
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Post by jjas on Feb 24, 2015 12:16:43 GMT -5
Swik
Hunterman
None of this is about "fair chase". It never was and never will be. This is about making money and big antlers = big dollars.
Bottom line.
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 24, 2015 12:17:33 GMT -5
I guess it all comes down to the definition of fair chase. If you can etch that definition in stone where everyone agrees then this discussion would be moot. However, I do not think you will see in the definition the word fence anywhere., nor baiting, nor use of dogs, nor high powered rifles. Canned Hunting occurs on both side and fair chase occurs on both sides. I agree killing a trophy on a preserve is NOT the same thing as killing a trophy on the outside, but fair chase is a different part of that discussion. Sure you will.. The two most highly recognized major huntng organizations will not accept any animal taken behind a fence as "fair chase". Again, your use of killing yearling deer does not pass the test of "canned huntng" in the wild. I'm sure that might work on the uninformed and ignorant politicians but hunters don't buy it. Again, Any cross fencing on your property?
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Post by firstwd on Feb 24, 2015 12:18:12 GMT -5
Where is this place? I for one would love to come see it so I can form an educated opinion.
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Post by swilk on Feb 24, 2015 12:21:03 GMT -5
I would guess that one of the clubs ... B&C or P&Y ... came up with term "fair chase". Inside a fence does not meet their criteria of "fair chase". Does not matter what the size of the enclosure is.
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Post by swilk on Feb 24, 2015 12:22:57 GMT -5
If you are attempting to make the point that it can be in an enclosure and not be "canned" I would suggest doing it a different way. It has already been discussed in this thread that at least some of us would buy into the notion that all enclosures are not created equal. Size, and habitat makeup, matter.
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Post by hunterman on Feb 24, 2015 12:24:39 GMT -5
DRS, we will agree to disagree. I introduce hundreds and hundreds into the great outdoors each year and make a lot of dreams come true. The preserve is just a part of what I do but that is where the demand has been for the past few years and is growing in leaps and bounds. If a guy wants to go out and shoot everything brown and call it hunting or whatever then so be it but not here. If a sportsman is not interested in the hunt, the heritage, the ethics and the "deer camp" experience they wont be hunting with us. If sportsmen continue to pit against one another over bow and cross bow and shotgun and rifle the only place you will be able to hunt will be on a preserve where the hunting heritage will always continue.
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Post by hunterman on Feb 24, 2015 12:28:09 GMT -5
Woody- SCI is the largest known group and they absolutely recognize deer behind fence. I answered you question a couple time.no,
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Post by onebentarrow on Feb 24, 2015 12:28:34 GMT -5
...How many inches= a small one. How many inches = a medium one. How many inches = a large one... how many inches = an extra large size... Haha, that's all those high-fence kind of guys think about!! ;) It is not just "high fence" some guides on " fair chase" charge a trophy fee by the inch plus normal fee for guide/acomidations and such
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Post by ms660 on Feb 24, 2015 12:40:27 GMT -5
swilk- As an outfitter I offer hunts on a preserve and on private properties. I do not allow my hunters to kill any deer under three yrs old or under 125 inches on either side of the fence. I do make exceptions for kids and disabled people. We hunt exactly the same on both sides, food plots, rutting activity, oak flats etc. No baiting. 95% of hunts are conducted from a stand. I have a much higher success rate on the preserve because I control all the elements that makes it difficult in the wild. No poaching, no killing young deer, the deer are healthy and managed by eliminating poor genetics. If you hunt one of my stands on either side of the fence your hunt will be unsuccessful if the deer sees, hears or smells you. The deer will run to another area and you will not see it again. You will have to regroup and plan the hunt for the next day. My poin is this. The fence "alone" does not make it fair chase or not. It can though and thats where its wrong and that why people who truly have not experienced it cant understand. How many bucks do you have behind the fence under 3 years old or 125"that could possibly be shot on purpose or not? I'm willing to bet that very few people get penalized for shooting a buck less than 3 or under 125" on your behind the fence hunts. I feel the fact that if a human incorporates a fence and stocks this area with deer for the sole purpose of killing it the word "hunting or the word sportsman" should never be used much like if someone pays a prostitute for sex, they shouldn't call it making love
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Post by hunterman on Feb 24, 2015 12:47:20 GMT -5
ms660- Compare it to a stocked lake. There are big ones in there you just have to catch them. No guarantee. Is it still fishing.
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 24, 2015 12:48:30 GMT -5
Woody- SCI is the largest known group and they absolutely recognize deer behind fence. I answered you question a couple time.no, So when one says "world record typical whitetail" does one think of Boone and Crockett or SCI? I can guarantee you every deer hunter on here can tell you the Hunter that took the Wirkd Recird Typicks whitetail not not on can tell you what is the top typical SCI.. They and the deer farmers are b astardizing deer hunting..
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Post by hunterman on Feb 24, 2015 12:57:33 GMT -5
Woody- SCI is the largest known group and they absolutely recognize deer behind fence. I answered you question a couple time.no, So when one says "world record typical whitetail" does one think of Boone and Crockett or SCI? I can guarantee you every deer hunter on here can tell you the Hunter that took the Wirkd Recird Typicks whitetail not not on can tell you what is the top typical SCI.. They and the deer farmers are b astardizing deer hunting.. Woody, All depends on your audience. If you are talking about a few guys on a little hunting forum you might be right. But the world is a big place. Most hunters by percentage dont even care or know how to score, its either a 8 pt or 10 pt. Go to the largest hunting expos in the world, you would definitely be a bean in a bushel of corn. The money they generate is what will save hunting and the hunting heritage for you and everyone else.
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Post by jjas on Feb 24, 2015 13:08:09 GMT -5
hunterman
.....as long as the check clears.....
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Post by greghopper on Feb 24, 2015 13:31:04 GMT -5
I would guess that one of the clubs ... B&C or P&Y ... came up with term "fair chase". Inside a fence does not meet their criteria of "fair chase". Does not matter what the size of the enclosure is. If it has a EAR TAG it's not a wild game and is not fair chase!!!!!!!
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