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Post by greghopper on Feb 23, 2015 16:51:06 GMT -5
A Deer with a ear tag is not wild and never will be!!
BTW... Can hunting/preserve has a high success rate wild /fair chase hunting is much lower!!!
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 23, 2015 16:56:12 GMT -5
I am not even remotely calling it fair chase or free range .... just that I think you can have a fence and it not be "canned" hunting. I think a person could reasonably call certain enclosure "high fence hunting". Its not fair chase hunting. Its not canned hunting. Its high fence hunting. King ranch is what ... 825,000 acres? More than twice the size of Knox county Indiana. Size matters in this discussion. Size does matter.. As well as adequate cover, number of animals being hunted and human acclimation. IIRC - the King Ranch is not 100% high fenced.. I once bowhunted for elk in a 1,000 acre "pasture" of quakies and scrub oak in Colorado. I saw the three strand barbed wire twice in an entire day. Once on purpose so I could follow it back to the gate.. Not too many 1,000 acre parcels in Indiana with decent cover..
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Post by shouldernuke on Feb 23, 2015 17:36:14 GMT -5
This whole deer per acre discussion makes me wonder exactly what those parks before the hunts began or the first few years of the park hunts were at per deer per acres .I would bet some far higher than 60 deer per 250 acres !! I am sure the way they made it sound with the eagle creek hunt is far worse than that !! .So were those canned hunts or unethical According to some here it is unethical to hunt that many deer on property that size!! Be careful guys you lump too many variables in .I would bet the guys doing those park hunts thought they were hunting if you asked them! Just like some of the Preserve hunters too ! Lets be real by the description of the deer densities of some of the land people here hunt or these parks that get special hunts in the past or new ones its that bad or worse .So are they hunting or just shooting ??Is it canned or unfair or unethical?? Just saying sounds about the same to me shooting fish in a barrel was stated !!
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 17:44:57 GMT -5
I am not arguing that deer on a preserve are as equally as hard as hunting mature wild deer,no cpomparison. Mature whitetail deer in the wild are one of the hardest hunts anywhere. I am stating a fact that hunting mature deer on a preserve is as ethical and more challenging than 80% of the deer killed in Indiana (18months old). My point is not to convert anyone or attempt to change their minds. My reason for posting is because after hearing such ridiculous claims, assumptions and accusations about what hunting preserves are somebody has to state the facts so the ridiculous post are to not be viewed as factual. Many are attempting to be the quarterback and have never played in a game.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Feb 23, 2015 17:49:22 GMT -5
I am not arguing that deer on a preserve are as equally as hard as hunting mature wild deer,no cpomparison. Mature whitetail deer in the wild are one of the hardest hunts anywhere. I am stating a fact that hunting mature deer on a preserve is as ethical and more challenging than 80% of the deer killed in Indiana (18months old). My point is not to convert anyone or attempt to change their minds. My reason for posting is because after hearing such ridiculous claims, assumptions and accusations about what hunting preserves are somebody has to state the facts so the ridiculous post are to not be viewed as factual. Many are attempting to be the quarterback and have never played in a game. How many paying customers at your place go home without a shot opportunity?
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Post by greghopper on Feb 23, 2015 18:00:10 GMT -5
This whole deer per acre discussion makes me wonder exactly what those parks before the hunts began or the first few years of the park hunts were at per deer per acres .I would bet some far higher than 60 deer per 250 acres !! I am sure the way they made it sound with the eagle creek hunt is far worse than that !! .So were those canned hunts or unethical According to some here it is unethical to hunt that many deer on property that size!! Be careful guys you lump too many variables in .I would bet the guys doing those park hunts thought they were hunting if you asked them! Just like some of the Preserve hunters too ! Lets be real by the description of the deer densities of some of the land people here hunt or these parks that get special hunts in the past or new ones its that bad or worse .So are they hunting or just shooting ??Is it canned or unfair or unethical?? Just saying sounds about the same to me shooting fish in a barrel was stated !! Deer at park hunts don't have ear tags and aren't "farm raised" as you call it!!
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 18:00:10 GMT -5
Runs about 6% each year. For me it runs about the same as not getting an opportunity in the wild at a deer.(not a mature deer, a deer).
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Post by greghopper on Feb 23, 2015 18:15:20 GMT -5
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 23, 2015 18:17:44 GMT -5
I'm still waiting on an answer to my questions in my post.
Tell us about your set up... in detail..
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 23, 2015 18:19:28 GMT -5
This whole deer per acre discussion makes me wonder exactly what those parks before the hunts began or the first few years of the park hunts were at per deer per acres .I would bet some far higher than 60 deer per 250 acres !! I am sure the way they made it sound with the eagle creek hunt is far worse than that !! .So were those canned hunts or unethical According to some here it is unethical to hunt that many deer on property that size!! Be careful guys you lump too many variables in .I would bet the guys doing those park hunts thought they were hunting if you asked them! Just like some of the Preserve hunters too ! Lets be real by the description of the deer densities of some of the land people here hunt or these parks that get special hunts in the past or new ones its that bad or worse .So are they hunting or just shooting ??Is it canned or unfair or unethical?? Just saying sounds about the same to me shooting fish in a barrel was stated !! SN, Do you now any parks that the deer cant leave when they are "hunted" or culled.. Do you know of any 100 acre parks?
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 18:36:11 GMT -5
woody, Imagine 120 contiguous acres of prime hills and hollows. Multiple stand locations over ridges, oaks and food plots. As you know when you are hunting woods you are hunting about two or three of visible acres. You have to scout and do all the things you do anywhere else and hope that the deer walk within range. They still see, hear and smell you. If you are busted they are gone, just as in free range. Its just like a lake stocked with fish, just because they are there doesnt mean its a slam dunk.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Feb 23, 2015 18:58:50 GMT -5
... If you are busted they are gone, just as in free range... 120 acres = 0.18 square miles. They ain't goin' far!! LOL
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 19:09:45 GMT -5
I would feel comfortable saying 8 out of 10 hunters in Indiana are not hunting 120 solid acres. Most are hunting 5 to 50 acre woodlots.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Feb 23, 2015 19:26:51 GMT -5
Woodlots with no fences.. you're really grasping at straws here..
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Post by shouldernuke on Feb 23, 2015 19:40:00 GMT -5
This whole deer per acre discussion makes me wonder exactly what those parks before the hunts began or the first few years of the park hunts were at per deer per acres .I would bet some far higher than 60 deer per 250 acres !! I am sure the way they made it sound with the eagle creek hunt is far worse than that !! .So were those canned hunts or unethical According to some here it is unethical to hunt that many deer on property that size!! Be careful guys you lump too many variables in .I would bet the guys doing those park hunts thought they were hunting if you asked them! Just like some of the Preserve hunters too ! Lets be real by the description of the deer densities of some of the land people here hunt or these parks that get special hunts in the past or new ones its that bad or worse .So are they hunting or just shooting ??Is it canned or unfair or unethical?? Just saying sounds about the same to me shooting fish in a barrel was stated !! SN, Do you now any parks that the deer cant leave when they are "hunted" or culled.. Do you know of any 100 acre parks? Hummmm and I was certain that the discussion everyone was throwing around about deer density per acre here not about 100 acre parks and there are likely many around the state in most towns .Lets be real most those deer will not leave those city parks or newly hunted state parks ,but they just ran around in there and keep getting shot up .That happened several of the original park hunts I was on .LOL!!
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Post by shouldernuke on Feb 23, 2015 19:43:49 GMT -5
Woodlots with no fences.. you're really grasping at straws here.. I think what he is pointing to here is the fact that even if they do leave that woods once stepped on a deer is shot at or another one is killed they simply and likely run right to the next small woodlot with one or several hunters in it .I see the relevant argument here .Actually I think we give deer too much credit when it comes to getting away in many areas . I think there are a bunch of semantics being tossed around both sides here .As I have always said about this sort of thing it will never ever effect anyone elses hunting but the ones doing it ....So if it offends one they simply need to not do it whatever it is .Like dog running ,xbows ,rifles ,ML,drives whatever .
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 23, 2015 19:44:10 GMT -5
woody, Imagine 120 contiguous acres of prime hills and hollows. Multiple stand locations over ridges, oaks and food plots. As you know when you are hunting woods you are hunting about two or three of visible acres. You have to scout and do all the things you do anywhere else and hope that the deer walk within range. They still see, hear and smell you. If you are busted they are gone, just as in free range. Its just like a lake stocked with fish, just because they are there doesnt mean its a slam dunk. You didn't andwer the questions...
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 23, 2015 19:47:32 GMT -5
SN, Do you now any parks that the deer cant leave when they are "hunted" or culled.. Do you know of any 100 acre parks? Hummmm and I was certain that the discussion everyone was throwing around about deer density per acre here not about 100 acre parks and there are likely many around the state in most towns .Lets be real most those deer will not leave those city parks or newly hunted state parks ,but they just ran around in there and keep getting shot up .That happened several of the original park hunts I was on .LOL!! Really? Why do the locals is surround the parks when hunts are happening? Sure the deer will leave the parks if there is good cover somewhere else. Parks and wood lots are not fenced to hold them on are they?
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Feb 23, 2015 19:49:14 GMT -5
Woodlots with no fences.. you're really grasping at straws here.. I think what he is pointing to here is the fact that even if they do leave that woods once stepped on a deer is shoot at they simply and likely run right to the next small woodlot with a or several hunters .I see the relevant argument here .Actually I think we give deer too much credit when it comes to getting away in many areas . SN, that argument would only be valid if there were a constant # of deer on your property at all times. If the density was the same as quoted in the article I linked to, that would be around 25 deer (a good portion of which are record book caliber deer) on your 50 acre parcel. Not real world circumstances.
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 23, 2015 19:50:29 GMT -5
Woodlots with no fences.. you're really grasping at straws here.. I think what he is pointing to here is the fact that even if they do leave that woods once stepped on a deer is shot at or another one is killed they simply and likely run right to the next small woodlot with one or several hunters in it .I see the relevant argument here .Actually I think we give deer too much credit when it comes to getting away in many areas . I think there are a bunch of semantics being tossed around both sides here .As I have always said about this sort of thing it will never ever effect anyone elses hunting but the ones doing it ....So if it offends one they simply need to not do it whatever it is .Like dog running ,xbows ,rifles ,ML,drives whatever . Disagree on "semantics" . Hunter man wants to redefine what is "canned hunting" by saying killing young deer on a wild hunt is the same thing. No semantics about that one, is there?
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