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Post by boonechaser on Nov 25, 2014 19:13:05 GMT -5
Like most mature buck's he has pulled a disappearing act. Did not see him once during deer season. Neither have my 2 neighbor's. Nor have I heard of anyone harvesting him. So IDK?? I have another neighbor that has 250 acre's and he is very protective of his property and allow's no hunting other than himself. I have not talked to him yet , but I suspect he's spend's the majority of his time on his property. Hopefully he will grow bigger and be a even bigger buck next season. I pull my trail cams during season, but will be putting back out in a couple week's, so maybe I will get some pic's around food source's.
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Post by straubam on Nov 25, 2014 20:30:01 GMT -5
shouldernuke,
so whats your agenda with this thread? What would you like to see?
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Post by shouldernuke on Nov 25, 2014 21:22:45 GMT -5
shouldernuke, so whats your agenda with this thread? What would you like to see? I have a few one was to make hunters really think rather than just click a mouse and actually state why they support a failed company line !!That so far has failed Also to bring real knowledge forward to those either unwilling to think outside the box .Woody and others brought that forward .But still no good reasons from the pro OBR people just wives tails or claims that the numbers do not support so far . Also to let hunters know that there are a myriad of ways to manage this deer/buck herd that have nothing to do with a OBR that can and does net giant bucks .Look at IL , WI , and IA for the real proof in that pudding . And to see how far gone the hunters of this state have fallen for the OBR and other DNR projects that may or may not work .And yeas the states I mentioned and others do things very different than we do and with many more hunters and by the numbers blow us out of the water every year . I really wanted to hear the PRO OBR guys factual reasons for the support and have thus far been very disappointed here as its so far been all feeling based for the most part and only a few posts . That's it in a nut shell . Oh and make the OBR crowd if nothing else faced the real reason they support it in their own mind admission of personal reasons rather than true biological ones .And to make the anti OBR guys face that same reasoning here .I still at this point think the main reason most hunters support the OBR is one of selfishness because they simply do not want others killing the bucks they want . I have not been disappointed in that regard so far or should I say I have been disappointed in that fact .
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 25, 2014 22:08:30 GMT -5
I'll leave the biological one's to the states BIOLOGIST. And I believe if I were selfish I would want to harvest more and more buck's as you propose. Why stop at two buck's a year?? Why not three? Indiana had that for awhile as well. (2 archery, 1 firearm). I get that your not happy and the deer herd in your area is evidently low, but I do not see that here. What I see is a plentiful deer herd with several mature buck's to hunt. (Mature being 3.5 plus). I for one agree that Indiana is putting way, way to much pressure on antlerless deer currently, but I am not drinking the kool aid that the solution is to increase pressure on antlered deer. Nor do I buy the argument that OBR is the reason leasing has become popular. Indiana's deer season is a little over 3 month's long. Personally, before I would support increased pressure on antlered deer again,would be if season length's were drastically reduced.
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Post by shouldernuke on Nov 25, 2014 22:22:07 GMT -5
I'll leave the biological one's to the states BIOLOGIST. And I believe if I were selfish I would want to harvest more and more buck's as you propose. Why stop at two buck's a year?? Why not three? Indiana had that for awhile as well. (2 archery, 1 firearm). I get that your not happy and the deer herd in your area is evidently low, but I do not see that here. What I see is a plentiful deer herd with several mature buck's to hunt. (Mature being 3.5 plus). I for one agree that Indiana is putting way, way to much pressure on antlerless deer currently, but I am not drinking the kool aid that the solution is to increase pressure on antlered deer. Nor do I buy the argument that OBR is the reason leasing has become popular. Indiana's deer season is a little over 3 month's long. Personally, before I would support increased pressure on antlered deer again,would be if season length's were drastically reduced. thank you for your candid post ..I know this though we got to where we were at our best der herds with the very season lengths we have now .So why would they need to change if limits changed back to basically where they were both buck and doe prior to the OBR. Care to elaborate a bit more on your ideas and why ?
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 25, 2014 22:48:34 GMT -5
Where I live. (Southeastern Indiana) I am seeing more buck's and a good number of doe's, so hunting is better right now then ever before. (I started in 1979.) I had several set's during early November that I saw 8-10 buck's. And like I stated earlier I saw deer every time out. Last 10 year's I have taken either a 3.5 yr old or 4.5 yr old 8 out of the 10 year's and this season had trail cam pic's of a 160 class buck on my farm and a 180 plus class buck on a client's farm that I had a chance to hunt. Things are good here, but I can see a slow decline in doe population, which over time could become a problem. I am always open to suggestion's to improve our deer herd and I can see your very passionate in your quest for what I believe is the same thing. I am sure my view's would be somewhat different if I were not seeing plenty of deer on my hunt's, but thing's are good here.
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Post by firstwd on Nov 25, 2014 23:47:09 GMT -5
Until someone figures out how to replace more than a quarter century of habitat loss, deer populations can not go back to the levels we used to have.
I'm going to open a can I should probably leave on the shelf. Personally, I see no reason Indiana could not allow each hunter the opportunity at 2 antlered deer per year. I just have a different idea as to how it could be done. A complete change of our license structure would need to happen. For somewhere in the neighborhood of $60, the deer license would include 2 statewide tags good all year with any weapon for any deer. Then for $15 to $20 bonus antlerless tags would be available, but only after purchasing the statewide license.
Those antler addicts would be happy and the grocery getters still have there freedom to fill the freezer. This would also bring in loads of nonresident money because of tags being good all year and the option of two bucks.
I do not see a major licence restructuring happening any time soon, but I haven't given up yet.
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 26, 2014 0:21:12 GMT -5
At the end of the day, we are all in this together. I want quality hunting experience's and I am getting that now. Some area's of state don't have it, so how do we fix that?? (Deer management.) Who does that?? State of Indiana. I don't see the state making any major changes either.
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Post by ridgerunner on Nov 26, 2014 5:53:15 GMT -5
I agree with the reduction of bonus doe tags..OBR with the reduction of doe tags. Numbers are really low in West Central Indiana. I've hunted here for 25 years and never seen doe numbers this low.
Harsh Winter, EHD, bonus tags all taking it's toll on the deer herd.
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 26, 2014 6:59:50 GMT -5
Instead of increasing antlered tag's I would recommend lowering bonus antlerless tag's in counties and shortening deer season's across the board's. (Archery by 2 week's and firearm by a week) Moving crossbow's to firearm and muzzy season's with the exception of handicap and over 60 hunter's. (This would include HPR in firearm season)Of course I know these idea's won't be popular with many of you , but make more sense to me then increasing antlered limit's. I guess if our state biologist came out and said that our herd could withstand some increased pressure on antlered deer, I could possibly support a EAB proposal.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Nov 26, 2014 8:45:07 GMT -5
Instead of increasing antlered tag's I would recommend lowering bonus antlerless tag's in counties and shortening deer season's across the board's. (Archery by 2 week's and firearm by a week) Moving crossbow's to firearm and muzzy season's with the exception of handicap and over 60 hunter's. (This would include HPR in firearm season)Of course I know these idea's won't be popular with many of you , but make more sense to me then increasing antlered limit's. I guess if our state biologist came out and said that our herd could withstand some increased pressure on antlered deer, I could possibly support a EAB proposal. I agree, with the exception of the shorteed seasons. Aren't most deer killed opening weekend of firearms anyway? Seems shortening the seasons would really only affect the diehards (you and me), as most guys only get out a few times a year anyway. And I know I probably would be less likely to pass younger deer if I had only a few days to get it done.
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 26, 2014 8:54:47 GMT -5
90% of the time I am done during archery season and don't even hunt during firearm season, but I say reduced season's if we were to introduce EAB and add HPR as a new weapon. Adding crossbow's and high powered rifle's should make it easier for alot of hunter's, so in theory they should need less day's. Archery is way to long IMO anyway's and I rarely hunt the first two week's. Moving it back to the old Oct 15th date would be fine with me.
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Post by swilk on Nov 26, 2014 9:03:42 GMT -5
I wonder how much my, and others who live in southern Indiana, opinions would change on things if we hunted up north for a season.
To see first hand how different it is ... or isnt.
It is fairly easy to find areas in southern Knox county where 9 out of 10 guys would swear there isnt a deer for miles yet I know a guy who year after year hunts the ditch lines that run through the open crop ground and kills or helps another person kill a good buck.
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Post by straubam on Nov 27, 2014 10:00:55 GMT -5
shoulder nuke so which side of the fence are you on? Why are you on that side of the fence? You think Indnr is dropping the ball in the way they set bag limits? What percentage of hunters took two bucks when it was allowed? Do you hunt park hunts or urban hunts. Are you a meat hunter, trophy, hunter or a mix of both?
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Post by shouldernuke on Nov 27, 2014 10:43:54 GMT -5
shoulder nuke so which side of the fence are you on? Why are you on that side of the fence? You think Indnr is dropping the ball in the way they set bag limits? What percentage of hunters took two bucks when it was allowed? Do you hunt park hunts or urban hunts. Are you a meat hunter, trophy, hunter or a mix of both? Fair and good question . About me .I meat and "trophy" age hunt buck they do not have to be the biggest in the area anymore just top 10 % for the land I hunt {my rule on myself only} .I set a minum antler /age requirment for myself and the area I hunt with what deer are available to me there.I went for 25 years as a trophy buck hunter only in years past .It was fun and all but not as important I have run out of wall space and my name in a book again just dont matter much to me anymore .For my first 10 years it was all about filling those tags and hunting bucks period a learning curve as it were. Now the last 15 years I am about the hunt and herd health and size of that herd and deer strictly, weapons, methods are only as good as the guys useing them and I dont worry at all with that . Season and bag limits are main issue now days and keeping the hunting tradions alive and conservation of those animals we hunt . I will take 2 or 3 deer a year and one is always a targeted buck in that % of bucks I will shoot. FYI I have not gone dry on a buck in decades so thats not what is fueling me at all . I think that IMHO the IDNR has tried for too long to manage the state end to end and side to side under the same season lengths and bag limits "outside bonus tag limits " too long now and its hurt many areas that were still in deer herd build mode. Was a time with the TBR that hunting was very relaxing even for trophy buck hunters because they always knew if there was a second chance later .Now with many times for many areas unrealistic expectations and no second chance buck hunting our state and for many deer hunting has become very stressful and it ends many times for the younger hunters or ones in less than marginal areas in frustration and disappointment .Hunting does not have to be stressful but thats where the TV ,DNR ,and Hunter peer pressure has taken it now .And that was not the case Pre OBR no one but the select few ego/greed fueled don't kill my bucks types took it back just 15 -120 years ago .Why do we loose hunters mostly stress and to many its just not worth dealing with the masses and egos .It is still ok to shoot a smaller buck with no excuse but how are hunters ever to learn old or young what it takes to kill big bucks if all the do is pass the few small ones they get a crack at with bow or gun in hand ?? Also those with plenty or bucks / deer or land to manage should have that second buck if they want.Its ok guys the deer hunting world will not get worse for you at all. Its just the knowing that you have the chance no matter how remote of taking that big buck after taking that buck you wanted that takes all the stress of the hunt off a guy .and that is what it should be about always even for new and old hunters alike.FYI even if there was a TBR not a single person has to shoot a second buck or allow it on the land they hunt remember that it was always that way another fact the early OBR pushing guys do not want to talk about .. FYI that second buck tag was either good through all bow season or for much shorter time Gun and ML only. A fact most do not realize tag #2 has an expiration date with gun . where as in bow it does not .That is why most hunters did not double dip aside from the fact that even if they took a small buck they usually would wait for a big one in gun / ML another fact that many do not remember of know . I think that the DNR really needs to consider taking the state and maybe cut it into 3 or 4 sections .Lets face it the Mid north part of the state needs about 10 years of the old pre 1990s herd building rules with shorter season length .I would buy into the type season bag limits here we had in the early 1980s .The harvest and herd numbers support that rain of thought and course of action here with out a doubt . I am all for the second buck with big stipulations but at stipulation/price to help out the DNR in the way they need it so they can loose the Antlerless pressure just to make extra tag money they have become addicted to now .It is never a good idea to use massive tag sales and burden a natural resource on the whole for money rather than a small segment of that resource and that is what has happened here IMHO . INDY has a bad habit of not listening even to the local COs and DNR property and biologists /wildlife managers let alone local hunters when it comes to herd reduction or increase efforts in bag limit changes that has to stop as well . So if hunters are busy letting the local doe herd walk while waiting on a bigger buck than their first as it was years ago they often did not shoot a antlerless deer just because its there and they wanted to keep hunting to see what that doe might have in tow. Lets face facts we are over time loosing hunters and the reason is one buck and done don't keep hunters in the woods and frankly gets old and boring for the young who want the excitement of the chase . It is funny the Hunter reduction started in earnest after the OBR no coincidence there IMHO at all .Besides the truth is that the TBR did not do anything but grow the herd bucks and Doe and few hunters actually ever double dipped and all it really affected was their local hunting .FYI the state could easily set the bag limit if we did go back to TBR on public land hunting to only one allowed per season per hunter on public land thus keeping it fair for those who only hunt public land as it after all belongs to every hunter in our state and should be treated as such. my IDEA break the state down into 4 real management units north to south that have different season lengths and limits . Stop playing bonus tag games take that away completely .Lets face facts when a hunter can in reality shoot 2 bow deer one gun "buck" and a ML deer the only thing needs is a second gun deer antlerless only and call it good .FYI count it up that is 5 deer per hunter and forces em to hunt other season for more deer and that is good for hunting and hunting product sales . Simplify the the License sales for the most part make Deer tags much like the Bundle .only or single deer tag sales either sex . allow the second buck but to rectify the loss of tag money from doing away with bonus tag sales .Second buck tag sales are at a much higher rate say $100.00 per second tag per hunter . <--- EAB this if need be pre purchase to make sure that hunters wanting that second buck do their part to keep herds stable or not don't matter to me but it is not necessary at all wont be that many second bucks killed to matter . This would be the second buck Urban zones and special hunts parks mil,refuge ex. All should fall under current state bag limits rather then in addition to .They have become a joke . Fact 90% of our hunters will not get drawn for those hunts and will never despite trying get permission in an Urban zone..... The little lie that most who say just hunt one of these places .Also proximity most hunters do not live close to these places to begin with . As I have stated many times this may be one state but is where the hunting ends from north to south and there needs to be positive change her in many areas of this state .Some areas are still in build the herd mode .Some should be in stabilize the herd mode and some reduction mode .But the DNR has dropped the ball here and continues to for money .But a one size /length /limit deer season fits all mentality has to stop here . I have park hunted its time to shut that switch off for a few years in most of the ones I have been in as of late .The fact that park property managers are the ones asking for the hunts yearly has to stop and allow the biologists only to make that call . Politics has to be taken out of deer hunting and money grabbing at the cost of hunters and the resource has to stop before it is too late in many areas .The herd has to managed not for a couple of Elitist back stabbing one ups men who have the DNR ear or the Farm Bureau. They have trashed this herd over squabbles at the NRC table .
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Post by beehunter on Nov 27, 2014 11:23:47 GMT -5
My friend knows a guy that has a position in the DNR and he told my buddy that the deer herd is not managed for hunters. I think it's managed for auto ins companies and that's why you will never get the doe tags reduced, IMO.
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Post by ridgerunner on Nov 27, 2014 12:22:07 GMT -5
My friend knows a guy that has a position in the DNR and he told my buddy that the deer herd is not managed for hunters. I think it's managed for auto ins companies and that's why you will never get the doe tags reduced, IMO. Oh boy...don't suggest the insurance companies have anything to do with deer management...lol....i did that once on here.
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Post by firstwd on Nov 27, 2014 12:59:54 GMT -5
....... so when will all the mad white people in camouflage start protesting and burning down the forests?
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Post by throbak on Nov 27, 2014 14:06:57 GMT -5
My friend knows a guy that has a position in the DNR and he told my buddy that the deer herd is not managed for hunters. I think it's managed for auto ins companies and that's why you will never get the doe tags reduced, IMO. I dont Think Your Friend or Buddy Knows of what he Speaks
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 27, 2014 14:19:06 GMT -5
My friend knows a guy that has a position in the DNR and he told my buddy that the deer herd is not managed for hunters. I think it's managed for auto ins companies and that's why you will never get the doe tags reduced, IMO. The "insurance companies" must be whizzed then as the DNR has reduced bonus permit counties the last two years - big time...
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