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Post by chubwub on Sept 9, 2014 13:28:19 GMT -5
Hmm, a lot of thoughts being circulated around here, it seems I've missed a very good topic. In my humble opinion, the introduction of high powered rifles is going to change little. There is plenty of data showing that CF rifles are just as safe/dangerous as rifled shotguns and muzzle loaders. In fact, slugs are more dangerous when they ricochet, as they retain 95% of their ballistic energy during a ricochet whereas a rifle bullet tends to fragment and break into much smaller pieces. articles.mcall.com/2007-03-29/news/3709028_1_deer-hunters-shotgun-rifleThe "safety" that was introduced by allowing only slug guns has also been eroded by new technology. Nowadays there are plenty of cheap rifled shotguns and muzzle loaders that are more than capable of slinging a slug out to 250 yards. My fiance literally cut a pizza box in half with a perfect vertical line while adjusting the scope. He owns a muzzle loader that he is more than comfortable making a 300 yard shot with and successfully killing a deer. The smooth bore slug gun he set up for me killed my first deer at 100 yards and ripped completely through the doe and would have easily been able to kill another deer standing behind it. And all of this power is at my fingertips with a semi-auto or pump action. Everyone gets so worked up about people killing deer with rifles, yet in the same breath, we lob .22 bullets at squirrels, frogs, crows, pigeons and varmints left and right, kill coyotes year round with "assault rifles" in these same residential areas and think absolutely nothing of it. Heck you can even hunt deer with handguns that carry the EXACT same potency, caliber and effective range as a rifle AND PUT A FREAKING SCOPE ON THEM but you can't use the rifle version? Now this is starting to make as much sense as the ban we have against certain shotgun gauges between .410 and 10 to hunt deer. Does it really matter what gauge it is as long as it's between .410 and 10? If there is such a concern about deer being slaughtered in massive quantities because all of a sudden an army of hunters will march into the field because they can start using rifles then perhaps officials need to limit the quota to 1 deer/buck, shorten ALL the seasons or do away with the antler less season. All of these suggestions would do far more to increase deer numbers than anything to do with weapon restrictions ever would. Scrub hunters will always be scrub hunters no matter what tool you put into their hands. In fact, I predict that many will have less success with a rifle, just as many did with crossbows because they didn't do the work into learning how their tool works, strengths, weaknesses and how weather conditions and other things can effect performance. It never got old last year listening to the idiots claim that they were going to kill a deer at 80 yards with a crossbow. A lot of them came back empty-handed last year...LOL.
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Post by drs on Sept 10, 2014 4:29:44 GMT -5
200 yards under field conditions is a pretty difficult shot for most .... a lot of stuff changes from the bench to the filed. Unfortunately Im not sure how many realize that fact. Back several years ago; I made a 378 yard shot on a Deer, with a 7 X 57 m/m, here in KY, hitting it in the Heart/lung area. It took a very steady hold, which an old wood fence post provided, and a scope adjustment up to 9-power and a bit of a hold over. Not an easy shot.
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Post by tynimiller on Sept 11, 2014 14:31:59 GMT -5
I have a .257Roberts that is sweet and accurate however for deer I'm nearly a 100% bow only guy so for me I wouldn't use my most accurate gun due to that doesn't excite me ) Help me understand this...I'm sure there must be a reasonable explanation. Maybe it's getting lost in translation. Please tell me that what excites you about hunting deer is not the thought you might miss... Gun hunting just doesn't make me tick, especially when still trying to harvest a mature buck. That is internally in myself and I don't hold that against any other who doesn't feel the same way....hence why despite my personal objection to the inclusion of HPRs, will fully support their proper and legal implementation if passed! Also no it isn't the thought I might miss that excites me it is the increase in the challenge of bow hunting compared to gun hunting...it's the same reason why I plan to at some point probably dabble in long bow hunting with cedar arrows...however I refuse to do any hunting if I'm not confident in my ability to execute a clean and swift death.
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Post by GS1 on Sept 12, 2014 13:34:39 GMT -5
Was in Bucks and Jakes in Boonville earlier looking for a H&R SB2 in .44 and told the guy that I was wanting it hoping that if/when this passes, my son can upgrade to a .243 barrel next year.
"I hope it doesn't." Says the employee that is trying to actually sell guns. I simply answered I hope it does and continued with what my plan was when he says, "why do you want to get shot 200 yards away with a HPR?"
I asked him why he hadn't been shot from 200 yards with my muzzleloader. His response, "well, you only have one shot"
Makes a lot of sense to me. A gun that shoots 200 yards is safer if it only holds one shot. Because I guess when people are accidentally mistaken for game, it is the second, third or fourth shot that hits them.
When legal, I hope to buy myself and my son new setups and I will not be doing it at Bucks and Jakes and I would encourage anyone else in the area not too either. Why give money to a place that doesn't support what you are doing?
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Post by oldhoyt on Sept 12, 2014 13:40:40 GMT -5
That's funny. I heard essentially the same thing from the owner of a gun store near me a few years ago when 44 Mag became legal in rifles. The guy told me he was against it because there would be all kinds of idiots out there firing 10 shots at every deer they saw. Can't say I've heard that kind of shooting, even on opening day.
I don't think the rifle that is used changes the number of idiots in the woods.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 14:08:05 GMT -5
Help me understand this...I'm sure there must be a reasonable explanation. Maybe it's getting lost in translation. Please tell me that what excites you about hunting deer is not the thought you might miss... Gun hunting just doesn't make me tick, especially when still trying to harvest a mature buck. That is internally in myself and I don't hold that against any other who doesn't feel the same way....hence why despite my personal objection to the inclusion of HPRs, will fully support their proper and legal implementation if passed! Also no it isn't the thought I might miss that excites me it is the increase in the challenge of bow hunting compared to gun hunting...it's the same reason why I plan to at some point probably dabble in long bow hunting with cedar arrows...however I refuse to do any hunting if I'm not confident in my ability to execute a clean and swift death. Fair enough.
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Post by jackryan on Sept 12, 2014 22:20:57 GMT -5
That's funny. I heard essentially the same thing from the owner of a gun store near me a few years ago when 44 Mag became legal in rifles. The guy told me he was against it because there would be all kinds of idiots out there firing 10 shots at every deer they saw. Can't say I've heard that kind of shooting, even on opening day. I don't think the rifle that is used changes the number of idiots in the woods. It sure changes the number of times they shoot. I can sure say I've heard it an not just on opening day.
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Post by drs on Sept 13, 2014 4:28:18 GMT -5
That's funny. I heard essentially the same thing from the owner of a gun store near me a few years ago when 44 Mag became legal in rifles. The guy told me he was against it because there would be all kinds of idiots out there firing 10 shots at every deer they saw. Can't say I've heard that kind of shooting, even on opening day. I don't think the rifle that is used changes the number of idiots in the woods. It sure changes the number of times they shoot. I can sure say I've heard it an not just on opening day. Once, when I was Deer Hunting, back in the early 1980's, when only shotgun slugs or M/L's were legal in Indiana; I was hunting in Pike County. While, I was in my ground blind, one morning, A nice 6-point Buck came-up behind me. I turned around and saw the Buck run and then heard some Idiot just below where I was sitting fire off FIVE shots with his 12 gauge slug gun, at the running Deer. Having my Hunter orange vest & hat on, he should have know I was approximately in his line-of-fire. So from then on I hunt in a ladder stand. NOPE, I also don't believe a rifle would change the number of careless Hunters in the woods.
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Post by firstwd on Sept 13, 2014 6:33:18 GMT -5
That's funny. I heard essentially the same thing from the owner of a gun store near me a few years ago when 44 Mag became legal in rifles. The guy told me he was against it because there would be all kinds of idiots out there firing 10 shots at every deer they saw. Can't say I've heard that kind of shooting, even on opening day. I don't think the rifle that is used changes the number of idiots in the woods. It sure changes the number of times they shoot. I can sure say I've heard it an not just on opening day. How does the rifle change the number of times people shoot? It might change the number of round they are capable of rapidly shooting, but in no way does it change the number of times they pull the trigger. It kinda sounds like you may need to find a better class of people to spend your time afield with.
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Post by span870 on Sept 13, 2014 6:59:18 GMT -5
That's funny. I heard essentially the same thing from the owner of a gun store near me a few years ago when 44 Mag became legal in rifles. The guy told me he was against it because there would be all kinds of idiots out there firing 10 shots at every deer they saw. Can't say I've heard that kind of shooting, even on opening day. I don't think the rifle that is used changes the number of idiots in the woods. It sure changes the number of times they shoot. I can sure say I've heard it an not just on opening day. Not sure I follow. My '06, .270, and .243 all hold 4 and 1. Same as my slug gun.
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Post by jackryan on Sept 13, 2014 9:40:51 GMT -5
It sure changes the number of times they shoot. I can sure say I've heard it an not just on opening day. Once, when I was Deer Hunting, back in the early 1980's, when only shotgun slugs or M/L's were legal in Indiana; I was hunting in Pike County. While, I was in my ground blind, one morning, A nice 6-point Buck came-up behind me. I turned around and saw the Buck run and then heard some Idiot just below where I was sitting fire off FIVE shots with his 12 gauge slug gun, at the running Deer. Having my Hunter orange vest & hat on, he should have know I was approximately in his line-of-fire. So from then on I hunt in a ladder stand. NOPE, I also don't believe a rifle would change the number of careless Hunters in the woods. Did he have his kid with him teaching them to do the same with their 410 or 357 rifle?
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Post by swilk on Sept 13, 2014 10:29:47 GMT -5
You sure are an interesting fella. Crazy but interesting.
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Post by M4Madness on Sept 13, 2014 12:46:40 GMT -5
...opening day sounds like a war zone... It's all subjective and regional. I've heard WAY LESS shots during firearms season since PCR's were legalized for deer than I ever did while hunting with a slug gun. Seriously.
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Post by span870 on Sept 13, 2014 13:34:48 GMT -5
Again my rifles hold as many rounds as any shotgun. Some less. I don't get what your point is of volleys of follow up shots. Hunted hnf for years before pcrs were allowed. Ww111 does t do it justice. Your argument holds no water. Just say I'm a bow hunter and I don't want a gun season.
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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 13, 2014 13:36:49 GMT -5
Back to the subject guys... Personal stuff will cease......
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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 17, 2014 7:09:10 GMT -5
The center fire rifle proposal was preliminarily adopted yesterday . Public comment will start soon...
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Post by firstwd on Sept 17, 2014 15:49:09 GMT -5
Like years and subjects past, a lot of comments will come out for and against. Hopefully, like years and subjects past, sound science and hard data will win out.
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Post by mrfixit on Sept 18, 2014 18:08:09 GMT -5
Never mind.
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Post by tynimiller on Sept 20, 2014 17:40:43 GMT -5
Only thing I would like is limit the amount of rounds loaded. I personally don't think a magazine full of .308 in an AR has a place idiots will be idiots no matter the weapon but allowing that is just a little "not thought out" if you ask me. Again read back through my posts before anyone labels me a HPR hater.
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Post by M4Madness on Sept 20, 2014 19:17:14 GMT -5
Only thing I would like is limit the amount of rounds loaded. Hard to limit rounds when a lever-action .44 Mag will hold 10 rounds in its tubular magazine.
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