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Post by HuntMeister on Sept 5, 2014 9:42:47 GMT -5
Will these guns be legal fir the november 2014 season or would this begin in 2015? 2015 at the earliest
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Post by stevein on Sept 5, 2014 9:54:15 GMT -5
I am about 95% in favor of HPR's in the firearm and special anterless season. I want to see a max number of rounds / mag cap / clip cap whatever you want to call it. Ohio included wording in theirs that with tube mags they would be legal but you could only load 3 ( I think ). I would be happy with 6 or less. Last year was my first with a PCR and I really felt that stuffing 10 rounds in my Marlin '94 was just not right, might give it a little better balance though. There are not many shotguns that have over 6 round capacity and probably for this reason the DNR has never felt the need to limit them.
Some random thoughts on this proposal...
- If distance was truly a factor we would be limited to buckshot or some form of bows, spears or knives.
- I do not see how the inclusion of HPR caliber pistols can be used in this argument as there is not that big of a % of hunters using them.
- Same for the .35 wildcats. Talk case trimming, forming brass, fireforming and even reloading to most and their eyes glaze over. If they can't roll their own the cost per round turns them off.
- The same goes for varmint hunters, there are not anyway near the numbers.
- As Sakorifle said it is the nut behind the butt. Deer season seems to bring them out on opening weekend.
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Post by swilk on Sept 5, 2014 9:57:38 GMT -5
Crossbows can be very effective when used in certain ways .... I purchased one for my wife and oldest daughter this past winter. After getting everything ready and sighted in I put my wife behind the crossbow on a set of shooting sticks..... sitting in a chair ... and had her shoot at a target 30 yards away.
Never shot one before.
Put two bolts within an inch or two of each other and right on the target center.
Easier than archery? Under the right circumstances absolutely.
Could she do the same thing offhand .... no.
Could she reload the crossbow from an elevated stand with minimal room to maneuver .... no.
But they do without a doubt have their advantages.
From a bench I can hit a 6" circle each and every time out to as far as I would like to. The scope has calibration for 60 yards and further shots are not much of a problem. At a static target of course....
If I was hunting from a ground position with a rock solid rest and had to choose between an iron sight smooth bore shotgun and the crossbow I currently own I would choose the crossbow.
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Post by stevein on Sept 5, 2014 10:04:57 GMT -5
I think that when the average guy out for summer sausage gets much beyond 150 - 200 yards with a HPR they will find out it isn't that easy. For those that can shoot decent to well it will be a chip shot.
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Post by swilk on Sept 5, 2014 10:07:43 GMT -5
200 yards under field conditions is a pretty difficult shot for most .... a lot of stuff changes from the bench to the filed. Unfortunately Im not sure how many realize that fact.
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Post by hankhunter on Sept 5, 2014 10:16:17 GMT -5
Why do you think a 30/30 or .270 is a worse option than the wildcat rifles currently legal? Both of these cartridges are legal to hunt deer with. The question is, Why is a firearm with a shoulder stock illegal and a firearm with a pistol grip only legal?
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Post by deerpreacher on Sept 5, 2014 10:39:29 GMT -5
Why do you think a 30/30 or .270 is a worse option than the wildcat rifles currently legal? Both of these cartridges are legal to hunt deer with. The question is, Why is a firearm with a shoulder stock illegal and a firearm with a pistol grip only legal?
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Post by deerpreacher on Sept 5, 2014 10:44:31 GMT -5
I agree. The fact we can use a HP pistol and not a HPR never made sence. I would feel more safe with a person in the next woods Hunting with a HPR than witb a HP Pistol.
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Post by dbd870 on Sept 5, 2014 11:42:16 GMT -5
I think that when the average guy out for summer sausage gets much beyond 150 - 200 yards with a HPR they will find out it isn't that easy. For those that can shoot decent to well it will be a chip shot. Agreed. The keys are spending some time with the gun at a little distance and having a solid field rest. I've never taken a shot over 300 and I've only not recovered 1 deer I have shot with a HPR. I've never lost or even had to track a deer far at all on any of them I've shot over 200yds. The 1 I lost (a doe) was with a 30-06 and only about 125yds. Poor blood trail that ended quickly. Couldn't tell you what I did on that one; it was with a Core-lokt, don't remember the weight anymore. That spike with the antler broken off that I took a handful of years back (thought it was a doe) was also at about 125 yds. ........ that distance just doesn't seem to work out well for me!
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Post by bigjim on Sept 5, 2014 13:18:43 GMT -5
Clearly the allowance of handgun hp loads versus not allowing rifles of the same load has to do with the barrell length n the correlated velocities, length of travel, etc.
Right or wrong safe or non safe that is why hanguns with bottle nose shells and rifles with pistol loads are all that have been allowed
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 13:28:32 GMT -5
The Subject of High Powered Rifles has always been controversial in Indiana. I think certain areas of Indiana may be too developed to allow them. But other areas are rural enough to allow them.
A popular belief in states that do not allow High Powered Rifles is that hunters in states that do allow High Powered Rifles are all hunting in very remote areas miles away from houses or roads, this is simply not true. In every state that does allow High Powered Rifles for Deer hunting, there are large numbers of hunters hunting within just a few hundred yards of houses or roads.
For example, tens of thousands of hunters use High Powered Rifles to hunt Deer in Kentucky and Tennessee every year. Thousands of them hunt close to houses and roads. If thousands of people can and do hunt within a few hundred yards of houses and roads every year in Kentucky and Tennessee, then the same can be allowed in Indiana.
There are counties in Kentucky and Tennessee that have over 300,000 people, yet those counties allow High Powered Rifles. Then you have extremely rural areas of Indiana like the Hoosier National Forest where High Powered Rifles are banned. To some people this simply does not make much sense.
Would the High Powered Rifles be allowed across Indiana, or only in certain counties ?
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Post by swilk on Sept 5, 2014 13:28:45 GMT -5
Clearly the allowance of handgun hp loads versus not allowing rifles of the same load has to do with the barrell length n the correlated velocities, length of travel, etc. Right or wrong safe or non safe that is why hanguns with bottle nose shells and rifles with pistol loads are all that have been allowed I disagree ... I would say it leans more toward there just arent many people who actually hunt with the handguns and not that the decreased barrel length takes off some speed from the round. And its not rifles with pistol loads and handguns with bottle nose rounds that have been allowed ... you can hunt with a 7mm magnum in an encore currently if you wanted to and the 358 Grant and 358 WSSM are some very, very nasty wildcat rounds that are currently being used in rifles.
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Post by stevein on Sept 5, 2014 14:17:09 GMT -5
I disagree ... I would say it leans more toward there just arent many people who actually hunt with the handguns and not that the decreased barrel length takes off some speed from the round. And its not rifles with pistol loads and handguns with bottle nose rounds that have been allowed ... you can hunt with a 7mm magnum in an encore currently if you wanted to and the 358 Grant and 358 WSSM are some very, very nasty wildcat rounds that are currently being used in rifles. When I attended the public meetings years ago when the DNR proposed going to the .243 min that is what they said. NOT many would be using these rounds. I am just guessing but for every hunter using one of the wildcats there will be 100 or more using a levergun or a NEF PCR.
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Post by sakorifle on Sept 5, 2014 19:36:35 GMT -5
you would not believe how busy some of our forests down in south England are with public going around, but the deer still have to be controlled, as i have pointed out in other posts we cannot use bows, we cannot use anything in England below 243, so how is it done with out accidents. firstly the rangers get there summer bucks early morning before the public take over, but in the winter when it is doe time its not light until 8am. It is done very much the same as you chaps do when you are bow hunting, we have high seats at places were we know deer like to be or on areas we are trying to protect, so as we are shooting down into the ground. The seats only need to be on nine foot legs to give one a safe angle into the ground behind the target. But i draw the line at standing on a little shelf that is strapped to a tree twenty feet up, lol We are called stalkers because if the deer is out of range we go on our feet and stalk towards it until it is in range and we wait patiently until the animal gives us a SAFE shot, and if it doesn't give us a SAFE shot we leave it alone for another day. In range can be anything from point blank to a hundred yards on a windy day, or point blank to 200yds on a calm day I LIKE high seats and that way i am absolutely sure every time my rifle goes off where the bullet is, through the deer and into the ground it is brilliant piece of mind. regards Billy
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Post by hankhunter on Sept 6, 2014 4:53:09 GMT -5
Clearly the allowance of handgun hp loads versus not allowing rifles of the same load has to do with the barrell length n the correlated velocities, length of travel, etc. Right or wrong safe or non safe that is why hanguns with bottle nose shells and rifles with pistol loads are all that have been allowed If this were true, Those rifles that you refer to would be illegal for squirrel, coyote, fox, and varmints. Those rifles are not illegal to shoot up in the air at a squirrel, they are only illegal to shoot at a deer.
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Post by tynimiller on Sept 8, 2014 8:14:01 GMT -5
Clearly the allowance of handgun hp loads versus not allowing rifles of the same load has to do with the barrell length n the correlated velocities, length of travel, etc. Right or wrong safe or non safe that is why hanguns with bottle nose shells and rifles with pistol loads are all that have been allowed If this were true, Those rifles that you refer to would be illegal for squirrel, coyote, fox, and varmints. Those rifles are not illegal to shoot up in the air at a squirrel, they are only illegal to shoot at a deer. Completely concur it is odd, but one also must at the same moment remember there are far more hunters chasing deer than any other game animal in Indiana...I would bet more than even if you added up all the normal squirrel and yote hunters together. I'm not stating this in defense against HPR, I've made my thoughts known earlier, just simply reminding everyone to think through why might this oddity have existed or been "justified" in the minds of the law makers previously.
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Post by esshup on Sept 8, 2014 9:03:29 GMT -5
What gets me is the big uproar over allowing HPR for deer while nobody thinks twice about using a .22lr and pointing it skywards when shooting at squirrels. When you think about it, I'll wager that there are more bullets lobbed into the air that will travel further curing one single squirrel season than all the bullets fired during 10 years worth of deer seasons!!
A slug fired from a smoothbore shotgun and a bullet fired from a HPR will hit the ground at roughly the same time if fired at the exact same second. Now which one will go further after hitting the ground is the big question.
I think there might be a larger deer harvest if HPR are allowed just because they are more accurate, and cheaper to shoot than slug guns. If they are cheaper to shoot (and usually have less recoil) then a hunter might go to the range and practice more, making them a better shot. That should equate to less deer being wounded (due to a bad hit from a poor shooter).
My slug gun is sighted in at 100 yds., and will shoot a 1" group if the wind isn't blowing much and I do my part. My muzzleloader is sighted in at 200 yds. and will shoot a 5/8" group at 100 yds if the wind isn't blowing bad and I do my part. My long range rifle is sighted in at 300 yds., and will shoot a 1/4" group at 100 yds if the wind isn't blowing bad and I do my part.
Why wouldn't I want to use my most accurate rife for hunting?
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Post by tynimiller on Sept 8, 2014 9:19:47 GMT -5
What gets me is the big uproar over allowing HPR for deer while nobody thinks twice about using a .22lr and pointing it skywards when shooting at squirrels. When you think about it, I'll wager that there are more bullets lobbed into the air that will travel further curing one single squirrel season than all the bullets fired during 10 years worth of deer seasons!! A slug fired from a smoothbore shotgun and a bullet fired from a HPR will hit the ground at roughly the same time if fired at the exact same second. Now which one will go further after hitting the ground is the big question. I think there might be a larger deer harvest if HPR are allowed just because they are more accurate, and cheaper to shoot than slug guns. If they are cheaper to shoot (and usually have less recoil) then a hunter might go to the range and practice more, making them a better shot. That should equate to less deer being wounded (due to a bad hit from a poor shooter). My slug gun is sighted in at 100 yds., and will shoot a 1" group if the wind isn't blowing much and I do my part. My muzzleloader is sighted in at 200 yds. and will shoot a 5/8" group at 100 yds if the wind isn't blowing bad and I do my part. My long range rifle is sighted in at 300 yds., and will shoot a 1/4" group at 100 yds if the wind isn't blowing bad and I do my part. Why wouldn't I want to use my most accurate rife for hunting? Me personally I have a .257Roberts that is sweet and accurate however for deer I'm nearly a 100% bow only guy so for me I wouldn't use my most accurate gun due to that doesn't excite me I get all that you are saying though
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Post by Gunsafe on Sept 9, 2014 11:13:02 GMT -5
You can hunt anything in Indiana with a Hpr , EXCEPT Deer , go figure , this is 21 century people .
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 11:30:43 GMT -5
I have a .257Roberts that is sweet and accurate however for deer I'm nearly a 100% bow only guy so for me I wouldn't use my most accurate gun due to that doesn't excite me ) Help me understand this...I'm sure there must be a reasonable explanation. Maybe it's getting lost in translation. Please tell me that what excites you about hunting deer is not the thought you might miss...
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