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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 4, 2014 12:29:17 GMT -5
Nope.. Just pointing out it is a feel good appeasement for some bowhunters that still want to feel superior to other hunters. At least now you know how and why we got to that "crossbow license" when we used an archery license for 25 years in the state of Indiana for all crossbowers. What I have is your version of how or why things turned out like they did. Im sure other folks have other versions. And Im sure the truth is somewhere between the two .... like the truth always is. I DONT CARE! You also have direct quotes from the "organized hunting" group officers. The one from the Indiana Bowhunters site was very revealing about the intentions wasn't it? The proof of my statements is that ALL Indiana deer hunter can now use a different choice in archery equipment besides a recurve, long bow or an all bells and whistles compound bow. R U still looking to get the last word in again Swilk?
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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 4, 2014 12:30:37 GMT -5
Sorry Hornzilla ...
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Post by swilk on Sept 4, 2014 12:33:21 GMT -5
R U still looking to get the last word in again Swilk? Nah ... we can play the "I know you are but what am I" game all day long. I have said my piece ... you have said yours. Im sure you believe what you are saying just as I believe what I am saying.
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Post by span870 on Sept 4, 2014 14:55:28 GMT -5
I thought of a question today about something that was said that bothered me. It was mentioned that some feel that shooting a deer at rifle distance is shooting and not hunting. Well at what distance do the guys that feel this way think that it is hunting and not shooting? Or are we on the point that if it is not killed with a bow out is not hunting?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 15:01:01 GMT -5
The grand pubah on another site would probably allow compound bows and muzzleloaders as "hunting" and everything else is shooting fish in a barrel. Guess what he hunts with...
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Post by throbak on Sept 4, 2014 17:36:22 GMT -5
crossbow 40 yds no problem HPR 400yds Problem Thats the difference I See
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Post by budd on Sept 4, 2014 17:49:04 GMT -5
I'm willing to bet if the law is changed 95% of the people against rifle use will have one in less then two season's. LOL
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Post by span870 on Sept 4, 2014 17:55:59 GMT -5
crossbow 40 yds no problem HPR 400yds Problem Thats the difference I See So its a distance thing then? I'm okay then that I've taken deer at upwards of 60 yards with my bow. I've taken a deer in Wyoming with a 7mm at 35 yards. So which is a lesser kill? Which should I be more proud of? Before you jump on me I shoot thousands of arrows a year 80 and beyond. Matter of fact 90% of my shooting is done at 70. Yes I will be one of the guys hunting with a hpr. I will also be the guy shooting at long range. By design. I have the area to practice and I have the land to ensure a safe shot. Knowing your area and deer travels its not that hard to get 30 to 40 yards of deer to kill. It takes more skill in my opinion to consistently humanly kill a deer at longer yards. And yes there will be guys taking pokes at longer yards with hpr's but they do it with slugs and muzzleloaders. As far as not being sporting or "true" hunting in some words. Tell that to the guys that hunt the big woods of Pennsylvania and Michigan. Take the 50 to 100 acre woodlot hunting to the Allegheny national forest and see how that works for you.
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Post by sakorifle on Sept 4, 2014 19:12:53 GMT -5
very interesting debate chaps, rifles are quite simply as dangerous as the nut behind the bolt. set your zero at one inch high at a hundred yards, go to your zero target on level soft ground and fire at the bull, then go and see where your bullets landed behind the paper target, some of you are going to get a surprise. why, simply a bullet always kills on its way down. unless the nut behind the bolt shoots uphill without a back stop then he is an idiot and no one can legislate for an idiot. bullets with a sensible zero of a hundred yards shot level traveling 500yards? no my 308 cant do that. at 200yard i am 3 inch low at 300yds i am ten inch low Not the rifle to be scared of its the operator. shoot at sensible distances with a backstop using soft point ammo one should have no bother. a long shot for me is two hundred yards and i generally get my cull without any drama. dont fall out over it, remember the antis are waiting in the wings, UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. regards Billy
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 19:15:46 GMT -5
very interesting debate chaps, rifles are quite simply as dangerous as the nut behind the bolt. set your zero at one inch high at a hundred yards, go to your zero target on level soft ground and fire at the bull, then go and see where your bullets landed behind the paper target, some of you are going to get a surprise. why, simply a bullet always kills on its way down. unless the nut behind the bolt shoots uphill without a back stop then he is an idiot and no one can legislate for an idiot. bullets with a sensible zero of a hundred yards shot level traveling 500yards? no my 308 cant do that. at 200yard i am 3 inch low at 300yds i am ten inch low Not the rifle to be scared of its the operator. shoot at sensible distances with a backstop using soft point ammo one should have no bother. a long shot for me is two hundred yards and i generally get my cull without any drama. dont fall out over it, remember the antis are waiting in the wings, UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. regards Billy Well, that just about settles it! It takes our mate from 3,500 miles away to bring the most sensible post of the whole thread! Tip of the cap to you, sir!
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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 4, 2014 19:23:21 GMT -5
Here's the DNR's reasoning for legalizing high-powered rifles for deer:
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Post by firstwd on Sept 4, 2014 21:07:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the comments Billy, very well said and completely true.
Just a tidbit of personal gun information, my muzzle loader is zeroed at 200 yards (1.5" groups) where my 30/30 is zeroed at 100 (1.75" groups). Now my 243 is a different story because it was set up when I was trying to go out west to try pronghorn hunting.
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Post by jjas on Sept 4, 2014 22:38:36 GMT -5
The grand pubah on another site would probably allow compound bows and muzzleloaders as "hunting" and everything else is shooting fish in a barrel. Guess what he hunts with... I thought I saw something about a .300 wsm, but perhaps I'm mistaken. Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the "real hunters" that are complaining about hprs, will likely be using one if the proposal is adopted.
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Post by drs on Sept 5, 2014 4:16:43 GMT -5
Here's the DNR's reasoning for legalizing high-powered rifles for deer: Those are good reasons to allow H.P. rifles for Deer Hunting.
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Post by tynimiller on Sept 5, 2014 7:58:27 GMT -5
I am working on a full write up where I'll share more in depth thoughts on this topic but just a few questions or thoughts I should say that have swirled through my head:
-Okay, HPR legal, is gun season placement and length staying the same? Just wondering because yes while even I will admit modern ML and shotguns even for that matter shoot out to the 200+ yard range with ease but just like crossbows are easier to kill deer with (within reason don't go all ridiculous on me and no I'm not anti-crossbow technically)...rifles have a longer lethal zone than ML and shotguns hence the easier to kill deer concept...so I'm wondering if IN has given any thought to simply doing what some other States do and that is have a rifle season? It could be sandwiched inside firearms season or set by itself, personally I don't feel it is necessary to have such a long and in the rut timed gun season anyways but I get why we do it and I'd venture to say some counties need more deer taken out than others so there is that to consider as well...just wondered if any thought of this has occurred.
-It was shared prior that Indiana hunters have for years now consistently been getting things passed which make deer hunting "easier" (again don't be ridiculous on me here). Yes, passing crossbows I think was a good thing but a lot of people (NOT ALL) wanted it just so they could have an easier way to hunt in bow season. Pistol caliber rifles....now high powered rifles...what is next? I am not stating any of the things listed are problems...my only question is where does it stop? Is baiting seriously the next thing which will be argued should be done...if that happens gonna be honest I'll be livid. Just something floating in my head wondering about what is next.
Personally, I don't feel HPR are necessary but I won't fight their use if done appropriately (I do feel some kind of law needs passed for either distance you can hunt with them from a house or simply certain counties not allow them due to population). Anyone incapable of harvesting deer lethally and swiftly with a bow, shotgun or ML will still be incapable with a HPR...we just have to deal with the yahoo's for a few years who now with a rifle will take that 300 yard shot they wouldn't have before across the corn field....I will continue to pray like I do every year: "Lord, let more hunters hit the woods and less idiots."
Those of you so up in arms over this, or the crossbows...why don't you re-direct your anger and frustration towards things truly destroying whitetail hunting and hunter image here in Indiana. I'm talking about people illegally baiting, shining, poaching, trespassing and illegally tagging more deer than they should. NO LONGER be the guy who knows of the guy killing bucks under his wife's name, his daughter's name and his own but DOES NOTHING. FREAKING CONTACT THE DNR! Our image as hunters and this sport is only kept as clean as we make it...someone hitting the woods with a high powered rifle legally wearing orange, abiding by the law and being smart as to when and where he/she shoots ARE NOT THE ENEMY!
The ENEMY doesn't carry a specific weapon, they carry the worst kind of weapon: a mind dead set on not caring about anyone but themselves and respecting no one and nothing. Fight them. /rant done.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 8:14:26 GMT -5
I could argue that crossbows are HARDER to kill deer with. Example, I have had several instances where I missed a deer with a vertical bow and got a second shot. Killed one that way once. Got 3 shots off once. That would NEVER happen with a crossbow. It's a one shot proposition. I have also had instances hunting with a crossbow where, due to the shape and awkwardness of wielding the weapon in tight quarters, was not able to get a shot that would have been quite easy with a vertical bow. Are there advantages to the crossbow over the vertical bow? In many situations, yes. Are there advantages to the vertical bow, in some situations, yes. It's certainly not a cut and dry universal truth that crossbows are easier to kill deer with. In a perfect scenario, maybe, but not always.
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Post by tynimiller on Sept 5, 2014 8:18:07 GMT -5
I could argue that crossbows are HARDER to kill deer with. Example, I have had several instances where I missed a deer with a vertical bow and got a second shot. Killed one that way once. Got 3 shots off once. That would NEVER happen with a crossbow. It's a one shot proposition. I have also had instances hunting with a crossbow where, due to the shape and awkwardness of wielding the weapon in tight quarters, was not able to get a shot that would have been quite easy with a vertical bow. Are there advantages to the crossbow over the vertical bow? In many situations, yes. Are there advantages to the vertical bow, in some situations, yes. It's certainly not a cut and dry universal truth that crossbows are easier to kill deer with. In a perfect scenario, maybe, but not always. I think you knew/know I agree with you and there are instances like you stated...however I like that you pointed that out....just as I'd send a slug through a bush before I'd send a .243 round...well actually I'd never take that kind of shot but you get my point. I though think more importantly we as hunters must defend and protect our sport by supporting legal/ethical acting hunters no matter weapon and fight at all costs the idiots who can carry anything.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 8:47:38 GMT -5
I could argue that crossbows are HARDER to kill deer with. Example, I have had several instances where I missed a deer with a vertical bow and got a second shot. Killed one that way once. Got 3 shots off once. That would NEVER happen with a crossbow. It's a one shot proposition. I have also had instances hunting with a crossbow where, due to the shape and awkwardness of wielding the weapon in tight quarters, was not able to get a shot that would have been quite easy with a vertical bow. Are there advantages to the crossbow over the vertical bow? In many situations, yes. Are there advantages to the vertical bow, in some situations, yes. It's certainly not a cut and dry universal truth that crossbows are easier to kill deer with. In a perfect scenario, maybe, but not always. I think you knew/know I agree with you and there are instances like you stated...however I like that you pointed that out....just as I'd send a slug through a bush before I'd send a .243 round...well actually I'd never take that kind of shot but you get my point. I though think more importantly we as hunters must defend and protect our sport by supporting legal/ethical acting hunters no matter weapon and fight at all costs the idiots who can carry anything. Understood and agreed.
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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 5, 2014 9:33:11 GMT -5
I could argue that crossbows are HARDER to kill deer with. Example, I have had several instances where I missed a deer with a vertical bow and got a second shot. Killed one that way once. Got 3 shots off once. That would NEVER happen with a crossbow. It's a one shot proposition. I have also had instances hunting with a crossbow where, due to the shape and awkwardness of wielding the weapon in tight quarters, was not able to get a shot that would have been quite easy with a vertical bow. Are there advantages to the crossbow over the vertical bow? In many situations, yes. Are there advantages to the vertical bow, in some situations, yes. It's certainly not a cut and dry universal truth that crossbows are easier to kill deer with. In a perfect scenario, maybe, but not always. I think you knew/know I agree with you and there are instances like you stated...however I like that you pointed that out....just as I'd send a slug through a bush before I'd send a .243 round...well actually I'd never take that kind of shot but you get my point. I though think more importantly we as hunters must defend and protect our sport by supporting legal/ethical acting hunters no matter weapon and fight at all costs the idiots who can carry anything. Agreed 110%.. You stated very well that - "Yes, passing crossbows I think was a good thing but a lot of people (NOT ALL) wanted it just so they could have an easier way to hunt in bow season." I've hunted with a crossbow since 2001 after hunting with recurves and compounds since 1968 and know first hand the pros and cons of each archery hunting tool. I think a lot of those folks that thought it was easier and a long range hunting tool had a rude awakening. biggrin2
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Post by bigjim on Sept 5, 2014 9:33:48 GMT -5
Will these guns be legal fir the november 2014 season or would this begin in 2015?
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