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Post by greghopper on Mar 23, 2014 19:17:23 GMT -5
It's a story that started with one runaway deer. Coming next weekend: indy.st/1isGOUB Indianapolis Star investigative reporter Ryan Sabalow spent a year and a half looking into an industry that many might not know even exists: deer farming
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Post by Woody Williams on Mar 24, 2014 7:35:19 GMT -5
Interesting... please keep us up to date on this one.
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Post by boonechaser on Mar 24, 2014 10:08:55 GMT -5
IMO it has been going on for year's. Had a friend whom was a small game farm/breeder. Mostly bird's but he did have a dozen or so whitetail's. Every year he had a Outfitter from Iowa who would purchase his button buck crop to turn lose on his farm's. Now this is 15-20 year's ago before "deer farming" went crazy. Do you think that outfitter's are not "buying" trophy buck's and turning them lose on their properties for hunter's to hunt as free ranging whitetail's??? (You know it's being done.) I'm sure there are rule's and regulation's where this isn't supposed to happen, but you and I know that it is. I occassionily go on out of state hunt's, but don't use outfitter's. When I do I hunt public land's only.
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Post by jjas on Mar 24, 2014 11:42:36 GMT -5
Deer hunting has changed immensely since I was a kid. Back then when you killed a buck people would ask how many points. If you said an 8 or a 10, you'd heard people say something like "great deer, must have been a big one" as congratulations. Now people want to know what it scored and how old the deer was. And some of these local "deer gurus" will flat out let you know if they think the deer was too young to be killed and needed "another year" to reach his potential. Especially if your deer was on their "hit list".....
There are many places that make a good living selling hunts, and there are many more that sell "hunts" behind fences where the quarry can be a genetically engineered freak of nature. If that doesn't do it for you, then there are the places that sell live deer and/or semen to help you "boost" the quality of "your" herd so you can "grow your own" freak of nature. It's become like drugs to some people. Their obsession knows no bounds and no sum of money is too great to spend in their quest for big antlers.
In the end, when leasing prices enough hunters out of the sport and CWD kills a big portion of the herd, all in the name of trophy bucks, I guess we'll figure out that yes....you can take things too far.
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Post by boonechaser on Mar 24, 2014 13:06:18 GMT -5
Have never understood guy's wanting to pay thousand of $$$$ to hunt trophy anything??? I hunt for the enjoyment of the outdoor's and the challange of out smarting the animal i'm after. What challenge is there in hunting in a fenced in enclosure and picking out the animal you want to kill. (That is not hunting) That is killing. Money can't buy you happiness. I know a local guy who's family is very wealthy. They travel to Michigan and hunt the Sancuary I beleive it's called every year or two. He went 3 year's ago and shot two 230" plus buck's and came home bragging about it. Paid in excess of $20,000 per animal. (I got a good laugh.) Some people just don't get it and to be honest never will. There is a big difference in using a outfitter and then hunting free ranging animal's. (If they are actually free ranging) and hunting fenced in hunting preserve's.
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Post by boonechaser on Mar 24, 2014 13:42:51 GMT -5
"Money is numbers and numbers never end. If it takes money for you to be happy your search for happiness will never end." Robert Marley
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Post by greghopper on Mar 24, 2014 22:14:10 GMT -5
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Post by bullwinkle on Mar 28, 2014 15:24:21 GMT -5
www.indystar.com/buckfever The complete story is on line. The print edition will start Sunday. Lots of videos and interviews. This has to be one of the most extensive stories ever done on the Canned hunting deer hunting industry,the disease risk to wild deer and the ethics and image of hunting/hunters in North America
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Post by greghopper on Mar 28, 2014 18:31:16 GMT -5
www.indystar.com/buckfever The complete story is on line. The print edition will start Sunday. Lots of videos and interviews. This has to be one of the most extensive stories ever done on the Canned hunting deer hunting industry,the disease risk to wild deer and the ethics and image of hunting/hunters in North America Well Done Indy Star....hats off to all involed
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Post by Woody Williams on Mar 28, 2014 19:43:12 GMT -5
What an excellent investigative piece of journalism.
Every Indiana politician should be required to read it before casting any game farm vote..
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Post by bullwinkle on Mar 28, 2014 20:38:12 GMT -5
Russ Bellar still can't get his fact straight. He said he saw John Wayne die 20 times in the movies. John Wayne is listed to have died in only eight movies. He is recorded to have appeared in almost 200 films during his acting career.
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Post by Woody Williams on Mar 28, 2014 20:43:00 GMT -5
Russ Bellar still can't get his fact straight. He said he saw John Wayne die 20 times in the movies. John Wayne is listed to have died in only eight movies. He is recorded to have appeared in almost 200 films during his acting career. Lol.. Sounds like he watched the same movie over and over again...20 times..
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Post by whitetail1 on Mar 29, 2014 5:54:24 GMT -5
Excellent job by the Indy Star and all involved.
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Post by jjas on Mar 29, 2014 11:48:18 GMT -5
I can appreciate the job these journalists did and applaud their efforts, but the reality is.....this train left the station long ago and it's going to take a whole lot more than a newspaper article to stop it.
Hunting is a huge industry driven by our obsession with antlers. I know it sticks in the craw of hunters of all types that this issue exists, but when people place a high dollar value on the bones atop an animals head what did we expect to happen? Years ago, who would have thought that hunters would pay thousands of dollars to hunt deer in other states or purchase/lease land solely for the purpose of deer hunting? Who really thought that a good majority of hunters would purchase $1,000 bows and cameras that (in many cases) cost hundreds of dollars each to track the movement of deer 24/7/365? I never dreamed that we'd see so many people buying ATVs/UTVs that cost as much as a good used car. H*ll, we'll spend $50.00 for a bottle of deer pee.
And yet, we wonder why places like those in the article exist? Seriously?
For many hunters, they see these places as the next logical step in their quest for trophies. If you want a big buck, write a check, go to a high fence preserve, pick your deer, kill it and brag to your friends and family about your "accomplishment". The only limiting factor is your bank account. Find that repugnant? How about being a "deer farmer"? You purchase a few deer with "better" genetics or inseminate your does with the semen of a genetically engineered "super deer" and reap the benefits. And then, when you are getting great results, why not sell a few deer or a bit of "super semen" to make a little cash OR maybe open your own preserve. But before you do that, you'll need to buddy up to a few "well placed and influential folks" to help protect your interests.
How do you stop it? Many think an outbreak of CWD would be the only way to get the general public's attention and hopefully rally the masses to put enough pressure on the "powers that be" to end it. Still others (hunters and non-hunters alike) see these places as bastions of the free enterprise system and don't think the government should be trying to shut them down. They might agree with "some regulation" for them, but shutting them down is un-American......
What do I think? I think that like most things related to hunting, it's going to be up to us (hunters) to try and stop it. We need to pressure those in power to either shut these places down and/or do everything we can to try and educate the masses as to the potential consequences of these places and why voting them (the politicians that support these places) out of office would be the right thing to do. Will that happen? Maybe.......if we could put aside our differences and quit spending our time fighting with one another over equipment choices and season lengths.
Will it happen? Pardon my cynicism.......but I doubt it.
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Post by Woody Williams on Mar 29, 2014 12:57:46 GMT -5
I can appreciate the job these journalists did and applaud their efforts, but the reality is.....this train left the station long ago and it's going to take a whole lot more than a newspaper article to stop it. Hunting is a huge industry driven by our obsession with antlers. I know it sticks in the craw of hunters of all types that this issue exists, but when people place a high dollar value on the bones atop an animals head what did we expect to happen? Years ago, who would have thought that hunters would pay thousands of dollars to hunt deer in other states or purchase/lease land solely for the purpose of deer hunting? Who really thought that a good majority of hunters would purchase $1,000 bows and cameras that (in many cases) cost hundreds of dollars each to track the movement of deer 24/7/365? I never dreamed that we'd see so many people buying ATVs/UTVs that cost as much as a good used car. H*ll, we'll spend $50.00 for a bottle of deer pee. And yet, we wonder why places like those in the article exist? Seriously? For many hunters, they see these places as the next logical step in their quest for trophies. If you want a big buck, write a check, go to a high fence preserve, pick your deer, kill it and brag to your friends and family about your "accomplishment". The only limiting factor is your bank account. Find that repugnant? How about being a "deer farmer"? You purchase a few deer with "better" genetics or inseminate your does with the semen of a genetically engineered "super deer" and reap the benefits. And then, when you are getting great results, why not sell a few deer or a bit of "super semen" to make a little cash OR maybe open your own preserve. But before you do that, you'll need to buddy up to a few "well placed and influential folks" to help protect your interests. How do you stop it? Many think an outbreak of CWD would be the only way to get the general public's attention and hopefully rally the masses to put enough pressure on the "powers that be" to end it. Still others (hunters and non-hunters alike) see these places as bastions of the free enterprise system and don't think the government should be trying to shut them down. They might agree with "some regulation" for them, but shutting them down is un-American...... What do I think? I think that like most things related to hunting, it's going to be up to us (hunters) to try and stop it. We need to pressure those in power to either shut these places down and/or do everything we can to try and educate the masses as to the potential consequences of these places and why voting them (the politicians that support these places) out of office would be the right thing to do. Will that happen? Maybe.......if we could put aside our differences and quit spending our time fighting with one another over equipment choices and season lengths. Will it happen? Pardon my cynicism.......but I doubt it. Truer words were never spoken...
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Post by shouldernuke on Mar 29, 2014 20:14:16 GMT -5
Honestly most average Joe hunters could care less either way as it does not directly effect them and their few weekends a year in the woods .Frankly these deer farmers have been in our state for decades and will likely always be here its just business as usual and only a hand full of hunters care enough or are bothered enough to do or anything or even complain about it .Hunters are just people and most have far bigger things to get riled up about that actually cost them money from their pockets than this issue .good luck because the money trail leads right back to where the most of it is and it aint a few mad or offended hunters with little money or true political influence it just is what it is I guess .And things in big government always leads to the money .That is where the true power lays in politics' and policy setting in this country .
As for me deer farms or the laws /money around them never effected me or my hunting and I have far bigger fish to fry than this and the cwd fear mongers .LOL CWD has killed been responsible for far less dead deer since its founding than just one year of EHD in this country .I wish you guys luck with your deer farm battle though .
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Post by Woody Williams on Mar 29, 2014 21:51:50 GMT -5
CWD is preventable .. EHD is not ..
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Post by greghopper on Mar 29, 2014 22:06:27 GMT -5
CWD is preventable .. EHD is not .. Exactly..... CWD is always death ........ Many deer survive form EHD unlike CWD!!!
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Post by shouldernuke on Mar 29, 2014 22:18:37 GMT -5
CWD is preventable .. EHD is not .. Actually cwd prions are not preventable and lay dormant on soil and are transmitted and present in deer urine. Yet there has been no out cry to make the very deer urine from the very deer farms that have cwd from being sold or distributed but it has been proven that the prions are present in that very urine .At this point cwd has no cure and can not be prevented once an area has it if it could WI would of ridded their state of it long ago . Deer die all the time and they are never tested for cwd because they are never found .it would not come as a surprise to me or many biologists if it is present in some form in every state that has deer .According to James Kroll it has been around far longer than it was discovered and he believes its just another naturally occurring deer disease and WI way over reacted by instituting the cwd kill zone . .I tend to believe his theory as well its much ado about nothing but natures way and has always been in deer herds .MT recovered and did not do a deer clean out when it was discovered there . JMHO
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Post by Woody Williams on Mar 29, 2014 22:32:48 GMT -5
You can prevent CWD by never introducing it in the first place..
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