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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 9:56:18 GMT -5
Unless you have the chance, you can't get "practice" to see if you can or can't.
Hate to see this thread, having made the investment in 3 358's that would be "not allowed" by a .30 rule.
Indiana wants to make a meaningful change, do what Ky. did 25 years ago--ANY CENTERFIRE CARTRIDGE. If they still want to restrict personal choice the make it .243 or bigger
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Post by swilk on Jan 2, 2014 10:19:29 GMT -5
Unless you have the chance, you can't get "practice" to see if you can or can't. ? Is there something stopping guys from going out and shooting 6" steel plates from 300 yards?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 10:58:24 GMT -5
i think what he means is you have to practice real world hunting shots at real world animals to see if you can do it. sure you can spend all day at the range and fire a few well rested shots off of a bench but that is not what you would get in the field. deer dont sit there and wait for you to breathe right and get steady or move your sandbags to the right position. it happens in a split second and its over.
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Post by swilk on Jan 2, 2014 11:13:57 GMT -5
in the field .... under hunting conditions.
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Post by oldhoyt on Jan 2, 2014 12:21:14 GMT -5
Unless you have the chance, you can't get "practice" to see if you can or can't. Hate to see this thread, having made the investment in 3 358's that would be "not allowed" by a .30 rule. Indiana wants to make a meaningful change, do what Ky. did 25 years ago--ANY CENTERFIRE CARTRIDGE. If they still want to restrict personal choice the make it .243 or bigger Why would allowing 30 cal disallow 35 cal?
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Post by jjas on Jan 2, 2014 12:56:39 GMT -5
Unless you have the chance, you can't get "practice" to see if you can or can't. ? Is there something stopping guys from going out and shooting 6" steel plates from 300 yards? Many people don't have access to places to practice shooting @ ranges like that. The range I'm a member of only has ranges of 7/25/50/100 yards. And if I don't practice it...I'm not taking it........
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 13:08:01 GMT -5
Unless you have the chance, you can't get "practice" to see if you can or can't. ? Is there something stopping guys from going out and shooting 6" steel plates from 300 yards? Sure you can do that, the hard part is getting the 6" plates on a deer or other animalyou want to shoot.
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Post by dbd870 on Jan 2, 2014 13:13:55 GMT -5
in the field .... under hunting conditions. I have never killed one over 250yds; but I had a doe at just a touch over 300, put the crosshairs on her rock solid; no doubt it would have been a good killing shot. Didn't shoot because I already had 3 down that season and with 5 min of shooting time left didn't feel like dealing with her in the dark. You can make very solid shooting positions in the field while hunting, just have to think about it a little ahead of time. Heck there are several guys over on SP who have taken game well over 300yds with their handguns, but they tend to be custom made/modified and the shooters take the time to learn their gun. However I do understand what you are saying; you can't just grab a rifle and ammo off the shelf, shoot just enough rounds to get it sighted in and away we go. How many of them even have a clue what a 15mph cross wind will do to that bullet at 400yds? How many of them even know the wind is a consideration!
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Post by swilk on Jan 2, 2014 13:38:51 GMT -5
Im glad someone understands what I am getting at ....
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Post by swilk on Jan 2, 2014 13:40:47 GMT -5
And I could care less if they practice or not .... I originally said I was curious how many guys could hit a 6" target from 300 yards under hunting conditions and I am still curious. Ill never find out ..... so I guess i will live out the rest of my days wondering.
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Post by swilk on Jan 2, 2014 13:42:01 GMT -5
? Is there something stopping guys from going out and shooting 6" steel plates from 300 yards? Sure you can do that, the hard part is getting the 6" plates on a deer or other animalyou want to shoot. That wouldnt be to hard .... shoot a deer and after its dead put a 6" plate on it and measure off 300 yards. then shoot (at) it. If you really want to use a deer as a backstop that is ......
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 15:16:09 GMT -5
Having done a bit of long rang hunting the issue is never or hardly ever the rifle/ammo combo, more to do with accurate yardage estimation and optics. With the right combintions of all the above most errors are elimanated
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Post by M4Madness on Jan 2, 2014 16:45:21 GMT -5
Having done a bit of long rang hunting the issue is never or hardly ever the rifle/ammo combo, more to do with accurate yardage estimation and optics. With the right combintions of all the above most errors are elimanated The biggest issues are the shooters themselves. You can purchase the best rifle, optics, and ammo that money can buy and still not hit a paper plate at 100 yards. I fully support allowing rifles .243" or larger for deer hunting in Indiana, and I feel that we are closer to allowing them than many realize.
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Post by Gunsafe on Jan 2, 2014 16:59:57 GMT -5
u can hunt anything with a center fire rifle in Indiana,except deer.Anyone see anything wrong with this picture ? There are people out there that are making center fire rifles that are going the distance , o yea lets not forget the muzzle loaders .
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Post by cedarthicket on Jan 2, 2014 18:40:51 GMT -5
The biggest issues are the shooters themselves. You can purchase the best rifle, optics, and ammo that money can buy and still not hit a paper plate at 100 yards. I fully support allowing rifles .243" or larger for deer hunting in Indiana, and I feel that we are closer to allowing them than many realize. M4madness, you are correct in that many shooters have considerable difficulty hitting targets at 100 yards and beyond, regardless of firearm used. Regarding your feeling on IDNR allowing center-fire rifles of .243 and greater in the near future, I am not so sure. Following is something I posted some time ago to summarize the history of center-fire handguns and rifles for deer hunting in Indiana: Indiana, and perhaps some other states, has a history of GRADUALLY liberalizing some of its deer hunting regulations. For example, it took several years of people requesting it before IDNR allowed certain center-fire handguns to be used to take a deer. I believe 1986 was the first year and the criteria were minimum bullet diameter of .357 inches, minimum case length of 1.16 inches (no maximum), and minimum barrel length of 4 inches. If I recall correctly, 10 years later, in 1996, the rule was changed to allow a minimum bullet diameter of .243 inches and the other criteria were unchanged. By then handgun hunters had a track record of safety, they did not exist in "overwhelming" numbers, they had general public acceptance, and they did not take an exorbitant number of deer each season. And, as far as I know, very few would rant and rave for a separate season from the other firearm season (shotgun and muzzle loader) hunters. I believe so-called pistol cartridge rifles (PCR) were first allowed in 2007. The rule specified cartridges with a minimum bullet diameter of .357 inches, minimum case length of 1.16 inches, and maximum case length of 1.625 inches. Five years later (2012) the rule was changed to allow cartridges with a maximum case length of 1.800 inches. Again, PCR users had a track record of 5 years of safety, they did not exist in “overwhelming” numbers, they had general public acceptance, they did not take an exorbitant number of deer, and they gladly shared the firearm deer season with other hunters using shotguns, handguns, and muzzle loaders. So, if you want most center-fire rifle cartridges legal for deer hunting you may eventually get your wish. However, you may need to wait several more years. And, be prepared for perhaps another GRADUAL change in that direction before your wish finally comes true. This is just my humble opinion.
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Post by bigoaksslayer on Jan 2, 2014 18:47:21 GMT -5
Hey we don't need Indiana turning into Kentucky rifle season shoot the .44 it knocks everything down on spot and plus personally why couldn't the older gentleman that was shooting the shotgun just shoot a muzzleloader it wouldn't hurt him at all plus it would be cheaper.
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Post by firstwd on Jan 2, 2014 19:17:42 GMT -5
Hey we don't need Indiana turning into Kentucky rifle season shoot the .44 it knocks everything down on spot and plus personally why couldn't the older gentleman that was shooting the shotgun just shoot a muzzleloader it wouldn't hurt him at all plus it would be cheaper. While I like the .44, it does not always knock everything down where it stands. Actually, no hunting rifle does if the person behind it can not put the bullet in the correct spot. I think that is the point several are trying to make.
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Post by tenring on Jan 2, 2014 19:22:29 GMT -5
And in 1986, the original proposal called for only "straight walled" cases. How that got sidetracked is still a mystery.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 2, 2014 20:55:17 GMT -5
And in 1986, the original proposal called for only "straight walled" cases. How that got sidetracked is still a mystery. I wasn't in on the hand gun proposal but I do know the original PCR proposal was about straight walled cartridges. It was changed before the final proposal.
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Post by cedarthicket on Jan 2, 2014 21:21:58 GMT -5
And in 1986, the original proposal called for only "straight walled" cases. How that got sidetracked is still a mystery. I can’t solve the mystery either. However, if the final 1986 rule had required “straight wall” cases it would have excluded 2 pistol cartridges that had been in continuous commercial production for over 100 years – the slightly bottle-necked .38-40 Winchester and the .44-40 Winchester. Perhaps allowing the use of such venerable cartridges was important to some people. Also, many years ago (probably back in the 1970s) some people proposed to IDNR that center-fire rifles be legal for hunting deer if the rifles fired cartridges with a minimum bullet diameter of .400 inches. Some proposed straight wall cases only. Others proposed only lever actions and/or single-shot actions. The expressed desire of many Hoosiers to be able to legally hunt deer with a center-fire rifle goes way back. I will add that several developments have helped get us where we are today regarding the privilege of hunting deer with center-fire rifles in Indiana: 1) The history of safe, effective, and not-overwhelming use of center-fire handguns in harvesting deer in Indiana. 2) The development and widespread safe use of rifled shotgun barrels and saboted bullets with muzzle velocities and effective ranges much greater than the projectiles fired from traditional smooth-bored shotguns. 3) The development and widespread safe use of muzzle loading rifles with fast-twist rifling to stabilize saboted projectiles that give much higher bullet velocities and effective ranges than the projectiles fired from traditional muzzle loading rifles. 4) The argument that center-fire rifles could also be used safely and effectively for deer hunting if criteria would be adopted that resulted in ballistics somewhat similar to the “new” shotguns and muzzle loading rifles firing saboted projectiles. 5) Thus, the criteria of minimum bullet diameter, minimum case length, and maximum case length were adopted effective for the 2007 season. A modification of a slightly increased maximum case length (to accommodate the .460 S&W revolver cartridge?) was adopted effective for the 2012 season.
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