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Post by drs on Oct 8, 2011 11:05:40 GMT -5
The .358 Grant as well as the .358 WSSM are NOT your typical PCR's. "P"....Stands for PISTOL "C"....Stands for CARTRIDGE "R"....Stands for RIFLE
The loads .358 Grant & .358 WSSM are TRUE rifle cartridges.
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Post by danf on Oct 8, 2011 11:49:16 GMT -5
Again, no where in the rules and regs does it specifically mention "PCR". "PCR" is a term used since the beginning of the push for the rule change to generally refer to the allowable rifles that the rule makes legal.
I don't know why you keep insisting that the rule should not allow wildcats when it clearly does not state exactly which cartridges are legal and which are not- it's simply based on minimum caliber and min/max case length which makes all of the wildcats that fit the specs 100% legal. Yes, the rules and regs the DNR publishes gives examples of common rounds that are legal and those that are not, but no where do they state that it is an absolute list.
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Post by drs on Oct 8, 2011 12:15:00 GMT -5
Again, no where in the rules and regs does it specifically mention "PCR". "PCR" is a term used since the beginning of the push for the rule change to generally refer to the allowable rifles that the rule makes legal. I don't know why you keep insisting that the rule should not allow wildcats when it clearly does not state exactly which cartridges are legal and which are not- it's simply based on minimum caliber and min/max case length which makes all of the wildcats that fit the specs 100% legal. Yes, the rules and regs the DNR publishes gives examples of common rounds that are legal and those that are not, but no where do they state that it is an absolute list. First I don't care what Hunter use in Indiana for Deer. I just find it interesting that a "loophole" was found, in the law, inthat these short fat WSSM's may be trimmed to legal length and necked-up to a legal caliber (.357"), but they hold the same amount of powder, as a full sized rifle load like the .358 Winchester or even .35 Remington. The State of Indiana "goofed" on this one IMHO. The use of cartridges was originally limited to PISTOL cartridges like the .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, or even the .454 Casull. These loads are in the same league as saboted shotgun slugs & M/L's only they have less recoil & are less expensive affording more pratice.
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Post by Decatur on Oct 8, 2011 12:59:20 GMT -5
DRS, why do you even care??? Let it go!!!
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Post by drs on Oct 8, 2011 13:21:14 GMT -5
DRS, why do you even care??? Let it go!!! Like I said I don't care what Hunter uses for Deer, but it is amazing that some here insists on using so called "Pistol Cartridges", which are really rifle cartridges in rifles, skirting the laws, which was intended for only allowing true pistol cartridges in rifles. Guess the old saying is true: "Give them an inch they want a mile!" SHOOT ON!!
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Post by hornharvester on Oct 8, 2011 13:24:03 GMT -5
DRS, why do you even care??? Let it go!!! ....... DRS, DNR knew wildcats were going to be used and said so. If it dont bother them why in the world does it bother you? You dont even live in our state. I think you just want to argue for the sake of arguing. Really gets kind of old. h.h.
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Post by drs on Oct 8, 2011 13:25:18 GMT -5
I really must have hit a nerve, on this topic.
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Post by hornharvester on Oct 8, 2011 13:29:15 GMT -5
No nerve at all just gets old..........h.h.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 8, 2011 14:18:06 GMT -5
David,
As you should well know the ORIGINAL PROPOSAL to the NRC stated Pistol Cartridge Rilfes with straight walled cartridges. That was amended well before the final adoption to just certain maximum and minimum diameters and lengths. No, we are not hunting with PCRs persay...we are hunting with RIFLES. It says so in the IDNR Guide and on the check station book.
Indiana deer hunters seem to like them and the rifle hunter group is grwoing. Most of us see absolutely nothing wrong with that. Deer are dying from them and hunters aren't, so I cant imagine why someone would be against them?
This battle was fought numerous years ago and it is what it is - get over it.
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Post by drs on Oct 8, 2011 14:28:21 GMT -5
Okay, Woody
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2011 17:51:49 GMT -5
David, I'm NOT interested in your gun control thoughts, sorry. I want the flattest shooting rifle legally available. Period. Wat ever mix I decide to go with, it will be loaded as quick as possible. I owe it to the animal to use the best and latest when I go hunting. You can use a 12 ga. or 44 or what a stoneage club if you want, it's not what I want.
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Post by hankhunter on Oct 8, 2011 20:15:53 GMT -5
I've never seen anything that stated straight wall cartridges. The 44-40 has always been listed as a legal cartridge and it is a bottleneck.
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Post by HuntMeister on Oct 8, 2011 20:53:04 GMT -5
Oh boy... all this wildcat chat has got me really hankering for one myself! I have a call into AJ Brown to chat about his offerings and will be talking to others who do the same. In the process of selling a couple of seldom used guns to start the funding for a bolt gun to hunt with next year.
Who locally besides Brown and BFG are making wildcat guns?
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Post by peanut on Oct 8, 2011 21:08:02 GMT -5
get your .358wssm barrel for the encore at MGM. If you want a good bolt gun go to just hunt gunshop or let Mike Penrod build you one. ps just hunt sells encore barrels ,also look at dandtcustomguns.com website.
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Post by drs on Oct 9, 2011 5:39:21 GMT -5
David, I'm NOT interested in your gun control thoughts, sorry. I want the flattest shooting rifle legally available. Period. Wat ever mix I decide to go with, it will be loaded as quick as possible. I owe it to the animal to use the best and latest when I go hunting. You can use a 12 ga. or 44 or what a stoneage club if you want, it's not what I want. Tom, with all due respect, I really didn't care for your post against me and accusing me being for Gun Control. Remember if it wasn't for me trying to convince the IDNR to make legal PCR's since I started way back in 1987; you guys would still be using shotgun slugs & M/L's as your long guns for Deer. Also are you saying the 12 gauge sabot or a .44 Magnum is not powerfull enough for Deer??
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Post by boman on Oct 9, 2011 7:50:03 GMT -5
Who locally besides Brown and BFG are making wildcat guns? Fallcreek Custom Rifles has a Remington Model 7(just finished) for sale. Pm me if interested and I can give you contact info. Steve
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Post by hankhunter on Oct 9, 2011 9:02:44 GMT -5
It seems that originally many complained that there were not enough options for deer hunting. The IDNR tried to appease by expanding the options. Now some people are complaining about that. So the IDNR has passed yet another proposal that some people are again complaining about. None of the proposals take any privilages away they only expand them. Yet many continue to complain. It's no wonder IDNR is confused. The complaint I'm reading now isn't the bullet, or the velocity, but what the cartridge is called. It's getting a little petty. If you want to restrict privilages or control weapons join the Brady bandwagon. You will find a lot of friends there. If you want to expand the rules and support the proposals and any LEGAL cartridges that people can design no matter what they are named, you will find a lot of friends there.
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Post by drs on Oct 9, 2011 9:26:12 GMT -5
If you want to restrict privilages or control weapons join the Brady bandwagon. You will find a lot of friends there. No one here is "On The Brady Bandwagon" or anti-Gun.
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Post by hankhunter on Oct 9, 2011 9:49:46 GMT -5
I don't have a 358 WSSM wildcat. I don't need or want one. I admire the guy who came up with the idea. It's legal and it works. The same with anyone who has an idea and creates something different. To imply that it's wrong because its not currently called a pistol cartridge is wrong. It complies with the letter of the law.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2011 17:43:45 GMT -5
David, you've preached this a bunch of times, and have ALWAYS been against the use of certain cartridges even though it makes not a bit of difference to you. Look back and see, this is not the first time you've been on the BAN wagon. To see how stupid your argument is, you just have to look/see what the legal calibers are for those who use long barrel pistols. You can use a brick if you want, I don't and enjoy being on the edge and having an edge.
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