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Post by Sasquatch on Oct 14, 2009 14:19:37 GMT -5
I am interested in seeing what Hunting Indiana readers think on this issue, by the numbers. I want everybody to vote, and comment if you want, but please keep it CIVIL. I grow weary of the hateful, "I'm better than you" posts that often taint management related posts.
I have noticed that for the most part there seem to be two dominant opinions on this issue.
CAMP "A" thinks buck management ideas can
improve the average antler size of Hoosier bucks, but that Indiana will never produce the same number of B&C calliber bucks that states like Ohio and Illinois produce due to other factors. (for clarification: other factors are genetics, soil type, land mass, population of the state....anything besides management. I put soil and genetics in the answer because I figured they come to mind)
CAMP "B" thinks Buck Management ideas can pretty much close the trophy gap and make Indiana produce similar numbers of
B&C class deer as states like Illinois and Ohio.
I have made no secret of the fact that I believe other factors like soil and genetics are big reasons behind the difference. Taking Illinois for example, although they can take TWO antlered deer, and we have now been under a one buck restriction for more than five years, (and two bucks for many years before that) we still don't come close to producing the same number of Booner deer.
But that's me, let's see what YOU think! Vote now!
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Post by js2397 on Oct 14, 2009 14:25:59 GMT -5
I have a table from 2006 in that year Indiana had a total of 263 boone and crocket entries. Ohio had 408. That is not really that big of a difference. The main reason other states have more book bucks is because they have a larger deer herd and more land in the state.
So in my opinion none of the answers available are correct.
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Post by Sasquatch on Oct 14, 2009 14:36:42 GMT -5
I have a table from 2006 in that year Indiana had a total of 263 boone and crocket entries. Ohio had 408. That is not really that big of a difference. The main reason other states have more book bucks is because they have a larger deer herd and more land in the state. So in my opinion none of the answers available are correct. "Other factors" as I put it in my explanation of the poll, is meant to include "factors" like land area, population, etc. I have added that language to the explaination. You can only put so many words in a poll choice. Adding too many choices, I felt, would make it hard to guage the results. Making polls is complicated! |
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Post by racktracker on Oct 14, 2009 14:50:27 GMT -5
2.6 million wild deer legally killed (no telling how many illegally killed) in Indiana in modern times and not one is a 200" typical buck. Not a whole lot of 190s either.
Once upon a time bowhunters in Illinois could kill as many bucks as they could buy tags for. They also kept non-residents out too.
I'm a "Camp A" guy.
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Post by racktracker on Oct 14, 2009 15:06:59 GMT -5
I have a table from 2006 in that year Indiana had a total of 263 boone and crocket entries. Ohio had 408. That is not really that big of a difference. The main reason other states have more book bucks is because they have a larger deer herd and more land in the state. So in my opinion none of the answers available are correct. Wisconsin's (number one in P &Y and B & C) herd is estimated between 1.5 and 1.7 million. They kill three to four times as many deer as we do. |
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Post by ridgerunner on Oct 14, 2009 15:36:32 GMT -5
With the right mangement plan we can make Indiana the best it can be....We're not Iowa or Illinois or Ohio.....or Alabama..We're Indiana..and we can only manage the State to it's full potential........loaded question..no thanks.I don't think Indiana gives a rats **&^ about any other State from a management standpoint.
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Post by Sasquatch on Oct 14, 2009 15:47:07 GMT -5
With the right mangement plan we can make Indiana the best it can be....We're not Iowa or Illinois or Ohio.....or Alabama..We're Indiana..and we can only manage the State to it's full potential........loaded question..no thanks.I don't think Indiana gives a rats **&^ about any other State from a management standpoint. How is this a loaded question? Besides, it appears you basically fall into Camp A. I said from the get-go that I noticed two main opinions, the ones listed. The fact that there seems to be little or no middle ground is why I'm curious...what the poll is about. I stated clearly what I thought so I wouldn't be accused of having some agenda. I suspect most people believe opposite of what I do, in fact. |
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Post by ridgerunner on Oct 14, 2009 15:50:31 GMT -5
Every poll, Every posts, Every answer, is geared to this anti- OBR stuff..Every Single Day!
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Post by gundude on Oct 14, 2009 16:16:00 GMT -5
Every poll, Every posts, Every answer, is geared to this anti- OBR stuff..Every Single Day! Well Ridge. At least you can see that fact................ |
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Post by racktracker on Oct 14, 2009 16:59:42 GMT -5
With the right mangement plan we can make Indiana the best it can be....We're not Iowa or Illinois or Ohio.....or Alabama..We're Indiana..and we can only manage the State to it's full potential........loaded question..no thanks.I don't think Indiana gives a rats **&^ about any other State from a management standpoint. Agreed, and that is what we are discussing. But the question is will our "full potential" ever be as good as "Ohio and Illinois"? I don't see that as loaded at all. I don't think we can and others think we can. He is just wanting our opinions. |
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Post by vectrix on Oct 14, 2009 20:12:58 GMT -5
I can't see how genetics or soil can be any different then Ohio or Illinois? Last time I looked we were right between them. I think it is property and land mass that has us behind. I also don't think total annihilation of our antlerless herd is the answer to deer management. Ohio,Indiana,Illinois and Iowa is basically the same chunk of land for the most parts. All neighbors and all heavily farmed states, whats missing is the management. How many of those other states have a gun season that falls right during the peak of the rut?
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Post by jkd on Oct 14, 2009 22:24:12 GMT -5
According to Dean Weimer, current state record typical is... ---------------------------------------- The current recognized state record typical is Dodd Porter's monster from Parke Co. It is in the HRBP book at 195 1/8" Typical and was taken with a bow in 1985. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last edited by Dean Weimer; 01-17-2008 at 09:57 AM. ************************************************* That puts this buck within 18" of Milo Hansons world record 213 5/8"... In my book, that compares nicely with "big bucks" in other midwestern states. So much for soil and genetics... It would be interesting to see stats on these other states if you eliminated private hunting reserves from the record books and compared only "normal" private ground and public land bucks. Indiana doesn't have the large corporate hunting "estates" like some other midwestern or southern states, so it's somewhat pointless to compare the Hoosier records with states that have tens of thousands of acres tied up in "Buck$$$ for Bucks" operations. All the distribution stats and maps are available at the B&C site, along with a very concise article discussing the effect of the amount of river bottom, farmground and forest cover a state has and the number of record bucks taken accordingly. They also discuss season lengths and bag limits. www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/records_whitetail.asp?area=bgRecordsIf you believe that hunter numbers are in decline and the deer herd is on the increase, then it's only a matter of time before Indiana bucks will more nearly approach or beat current world record scores for individual deer in increasing numbers, assuming adequate food and cover. |
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Post by Decatur on Oct 14, 2009 23:31:42 GMT -5
I don't think Indiana gives a rats **&^ about any other State from a management standpoint. [/b] Thank god! I wouldn't want Indiana to fire our biologists and manage our deer herd the way, say, Montana does, just because they like how they do it. OBR/TBR, either one is exceptable to me if our biologists say we NEED to do it one way or the other to benefit our deer herd, and not a group of vocal hunters who want this or that. I've yet to hear their input! |
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Oct 15, 2009 6:22:01 GMT -5
Hopefully not! Then maybe we can get rid of the OBR...........
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 15, 2009 7:03:53 GMT -5
JKD, Soil (minerals) and genetics is real and part of the equation of growing big antlered deer. Our state's deer genetics is mixed. During the restocking some came Wisconsin ( a deer farm) and some came from Pennsylvania. We would have been better off it all had come from Wisconsin - northern deer are bigger than southern deer, right? Get yourself a map of the mineral soils and see how it compares to the QDM map.. I used to have one, I'll see if I can find it. This is about 5 or 6 years old so some numbers could have changed.. Big Buck States and Indiana Counties From the Whitetail News, Volume 16, No. 1, put out by Whitetail Institute. Square Miles It Took to Grow a Boone and Crockett Buck Last 5 YearsIndiana ranked 7th of 10 listed - 399 Square Miles Indiana all-time ranked 8th of 10 listed - 176 Square Miles Boone and Crockett Top 10 TypicalsIndiana none ranked Illinois ranked 4th of 10 listed (204 4/8) Year 1965 Kentucky ranked 6th of 10 listed (204 2/8) Year 2000 Iowa ranked 10th of 10 listed (201 4/8) Year 1974 Boone and Crockett Top 10 Non-TypicalsIndiana none ranked Iowa 3rd of 10 listed (307 5/8) Year 2003 Illinois 4th of 10 listed (304 3/8) Year 2001 Illinois 6th of 10 listed (294 0/8) Year 2004 Iowa 8th of 10 listed (282 0/8) Year 1973 Pope and Young Top 10 TypicalsIndiana none ranked Illinois 1st of 10 listed (204 4/8) Year 1965 Iowa 3rd of 10 listed (197 6/8) Year 1962 Illinois 6th of 10 listed (196 6/8) Year 2000 Illinois 8th of 10 listed (195 2/8) Year 1999 Iowa 9th of 10 listed (194 2/8) Year 1977 Pope and Young Top 10 Non-TypicalsIndiana none ranked Illinois 4th of 10 listed (267 1/8) Year 2003 Iowa 8th of 10 listed (253 1/8) Year 2003 Illinois 10th of 10 listed (250 4/8) Year 2000 Kansas held spots 5,6,7,9 Ohio 1st of 10 listed (294 0/8) Year 2000 Top 10 Pope and Young States (Non-Typical Bucks Scoring 170 or greater)Indiana 8th of 10 listed - 40 entries Illinois 1st of 10 listed - 282 entries Iowa 2nd of 10 listed - 171 entries Kansas 4th of 10 listed - 145 entries Ohio 5th of 10 listed - 91 entries Kentucky 9th of 10 listed - 28 entries Top 10 Pope and Young States (Typical Bucks Scoring 150 or greater)Indiana 7th of 10 listed - 208 entries Illinois 1st of 10 listed - 1,001 entries Iowa 3rd of 10 listed - 620 entries Kansas 4th of 10 listed - 442 entries Ohio 5th of 10 listed - 377 entries Kentucky 9th of 10 listed - 134 entries Top 10 Picks for a Boone and Crockett BuckIndiana 6th of 10 listed Illinois 1st of 10 listed Iowa 2nd of 10 listed Kansas 3rd of 10 listed Kentucky 4th of 10 listed Ohio 5th of 10 listed Indiana - Top 10 Boone and Crockett Counties1. Warren 2. Porter 3. Franklin 4. Greene 5. Fayette 6. Putnam 7. Lake 8. Parke 9. Bartholemew 10. Jennings Top 10 Picks for a Pope and Young BuckIndiana 6th of 10 listed Illinois 1st of 10 listed Iowa 2nd of 10 listed Kansas 3rd of 10 listed Ohio 5th of 10 listed Kentucky 10th of 10 listed Indiana - Top 10 Pope and Young Counties1. Parke 2. Vigo 3. Jefferson 4. LaPorte 5. Marshall 6. St. Joseph 7. Ripley 8. Greene 9. Kosciusko 10. Martin |
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Post by freedomhunter on Oct 15, 2009 8:15:42 GMT -5
meh, done with it on here. I like the site, otherwise.
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Post by js2397 on Oct 15, 2009 9:14:38 GMT -5
Indiana ranks 6th in B&C bucks per square mile. So your chances of killing a B&C deer are better in Indiana than almost any other state. We will never be able to get the same amount of book bucks as other states because we don't have the same size deer herd.
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Post by Sasquatch on Oct 15, 2009 18:01:35 GMT -5
Woody, look at that book you have about the beginnings of Indiana's deer herd. (You have the same one I have, as I recall) If I remember correctly, deer not only came from the states you mentioned, but a large amount from North Carolina. Maybe that accounts for seeing those mature bucks at check stations that weigh 150 pounds, right next to other bucks that look like they are 300 lbs!
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Post by throbak on Oct 15, 2009 18:26:22 GMT -5
i would think that after all the years that have past since the first stocking we have our own deer not carry overs from the past
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Post by greghopper on Oct 15, 2009 18:38:50 GMT -5
meh, done with it on here. I like the site, otherwise. Done  ....cakes get Done people get Finished... ;D You know we could always get some NEW soil Trucked in from another state  ... that would make a new twist to manging the Herd!!!!!!!!! What state should we order from? ... that is the real question!!!! |
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....cakes get Done people get Finished... ;D
... that would make a new twist to manging the Herd!!!!!!!!!