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Post by swilk on Dec 4, 2008 13:23:45 GMT -5
The point of all of this is that it is not acceptable for a majority of people in this country for gays to marry. The majority of the people in this country are idiots. Just saying. |
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Post by huntnprayn on Dec 4, 2008 13:41:33 GMT -5
Seeing as who the majority just put into the office of President.....I might tend to agree with you.
swilk I see that earlier you said that you are liberal on social issues such as this, I can respect that. I have a brother in law and a sister inlaw that are both gay...... I like them......they are fun to be around. When I was at Vincennes years ago I knew a few that were gay.......did some socialization with them.....no problem, but this isn't about whether or not they are nice people.
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Post by Sleazy E on Dec 4, 2008 13:55:17 GMT -5
huntnprayn... I thank you for admitting there is probably a "gay" gene... As far as the bible goes you know a lot more about it than I do.. after all I am an atheist and have been since I was a young teen... The portions of the bible that I quoted are the few that I remember and some I had to look up...
I do ask you to admit that since animals have no freewill... then all that they do has to be Gods will.... because as far as I know (as far as Christianity goes) there is no other form of will... I may be wrong about this.. and if I am I ask that you point me to scripture that says that an animals actions are not Gods will....
Also in keeping with the bible.. it also says that Christians can not marry nonbelievers.... would you have the government forbid these people the right to marry also?
As far as the majority of the US goes.... There was a time when the majority of the US population thought that slavery was a good thing... There was a time when the majority of English nobles thought that raping American women was ok... and I am sure there will come a day when the majority of the US population thinks that civilians have no need to own and carry guns... when that day comes... you tell me will they be right? If you are still here will you just hand over your guns to the "gestapo" or will you petition congress and if need be fight for your right to keep and bare arms?
As you can see majority rule is not always the correct rule...
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Post by swilk on Dec 4, 2008 14:21:13 GMT -5
Seeing as who the majority just put into the office of President.....I might tend to agree with you. swilk I see that earlier you said that you are liberal on social issues such as this, I can respect that. I have a brother in law and a sister inlaw that are both gay...... I like them......they are fun to be around. When I was at Vincennes years ago I knew a few that were gay.......did some socialization with them.....no problem, but this isn't about whether or not they are nice people. You should have also seen earlier that I would oppose gay marriage if/when it comes up in Indiana. Not because I believe it is my place to tell two consenting adults what they should or should not do ..... but because recent history has proven that this issue spills over to what is taught in schools. That effects my children and I cant have that. |
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Post by huntnprayn on Dec 4, 2008 14:26:54 GMT -5
Just to make things clear,I do not know for sure that there is a gay gene, but I would not doubt it since there are many things that have happened due to the fall of man. I think to say that animals are under the will of God is presumptuous, man was given dominion over them in the garden. Again, due to the actions of one man the whole world is a fallen place. As far as Christians marrying non-Christians, I believe that that is something that is up to the local church to enforce. Of course I wouldn't say that it is banned in society. That is what this is about though, what society says is right and wrong. Right now society says that gay marriage is unwanted by the majority. However I will say this, your illustration about guns is the BEST argument that you have given yet....bravo sir. Here is one thing that I will admit though......when I see Biblical references.....I love it......it's what I enjoy. I am preparing for my Masters in Arts and Theology as we speak and will carry that on to a Doctorate of Theology...........I love this kind of stuff. I would have been Suma Cume Laude (yes I know that the middle word is spelled wrong/censor) but missed it by .002 since I got senioridis......I cruised the last semester......I don't tell my kids that though  . Eh Magna Cume Laude isn't bad. |
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Post by huntnprayn on Dec 4, 2008 14:27:48 GMT -5
Seeing as who the majority just put into the office of President.....I might tend to agree with you. swilk I see that earlier you said that you are liberal on social issues such as this, I can respect that. I have a brother in law and a sister inlaw that are both gay...... I like them......they are fun to be around. When I was at Vincennes years ago I knew a few that were gay.......did some socialization with them.....no problem, but this isn't about whether or not they are nice people. You should have also seen earlier that I would oppose gay marriage if/when it comes up in Indiana. Not because I believe it is my place to tell two consenting adults what they should or should not do ..... but because recent history has proven that this issue spills over to what is taught in schools. That effects my children and I cant have that. I missed that, but see it now. |
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Post by Sleazy E on Dec 4, 2008 16:58:48 GMT -5
Huntnprayn I did include the word probably because I would not begin to put words in to your mouth...
Thanks I thought the guns statement was my best as well...
Congrats on your success in school... you have shown yourself to be a very intelligent person that is for sure.
As far as the topic at hand... well I am kinda tapped out on it right now... I am just taking a break from writing my 12 page final argument paper for my English class... so right now my brain is pretty fried..
I love a good debate... and I am very happy to see that everyone has remained civil in this thread.... it very well could have gotten way out of hand very early on... so I applaud everyone that has taken part in this so far for your abilities to remain gentlemen (and woman) about this controversial topic..
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Post by huntnprayn on Dec 4, 2008 17:10:21 GMT -5
I could show you a great religion thread at another hunting site that went probably twice as far in length that never got uncivil. Why should it?
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Post by Sleazy E on Dec 4, 2008 19:15:30 GMT -5
LOL would this be AT? I take part in a lot of these types of threads there as well....
I agree there is no reason for adults to be uncivil to each other over matters like this where opinions tend to differ for several reasons.... but not everyone thinks the way we do... I actually had one of my discussions for an online college sociology class not only closed but completely removed by the professor.... it had gotten tot he point that people were making threats on other peoples lives.... and these are college students... they are educated.. or at least want to be...
The funny thing is the instructor actually blamed me for the problem.... she told me that my writings are too controversial and that I need to tone down the things I say and keep in mind that some people may be offended by my way of thinking...
LOL all I do is speak my mind... I answer the questions that she asks... all of them ask for our opinion on certain topics... but I need to "tone my opinion down".... ehhh colleges are full of liberals... I just continue to do what I do... defend my point of view when needed and show the problems with the point of view of others where I can....
That is the purpose of those discussions... to make people think.
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Post by huxbux on Dec 4, 2008 19:41:16 GMT -5
The funny thing is the instructor actually blamed me for the problem.... she told me that my writings are too controversial and that I need to tone down the things I say and keep in mind that some people may be offended by my way of thinking... "Too controversial"  Well, I guess she's been successfully indoctrinated. The thought police are everywhere. Remember to be politically correct Sleazy, she wields the power  |
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Post by Sleazy E on Dec 4, 2008 20:08:20 GMT -5
LOL hux at this point in the class I could not do another thing including the final paper and still get a "C" so there is really not much she can do to me.... besides I kind of like getting under the skin of all the libs in the class...
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Post by huxbux on Dec 4, 2008 20:23:13 GMT -5
LOL....... rock on Sleazy, you're fearless.  |
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Dec 5, 2008 1:16:46 GMT -5
SleazyE;
My point is that if you are going to try to use the Bible in this arguement than the fact the God Created Man and Women is significant. God didn't say that Man was lonely let US create another Man. No, He created Woman. So what context are you making you argue? Biblical or Secular?
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Post by Sleazy E on Dec 5, 2008 8:23:27 GMT -5
My argument against your statement is simply this...
God created all things according to Christian beliefs....
would you agree to that?
The bible does not say but it does hint that Adam and Eve were not the only humans that God created.... after all Cain knew his wife but it does not tell you where she came from... so we have to assume that she was created by God since he created all things.
Would you agree to that?
The fact that there are different races would be more proof that God created more humans than just Adam and Eve... The bible does not say how or where these different races came from... so again we have to assume that they were created by God.
Would you agree to that?
So with all of this isn't it at least possible that while creating all these humans God could have created a human (even if by mistake) that had the desire to be with their own sex... possibly bisexual because they would still need to procreate in order for this desire to still be around today?
Before you start saying that God is infallible and could not make a mistake because he is perfection.... I want you to think about the existence of Satan... because he was once an angel created by God... and was not supposed to have "freewill"....
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Post by huntnprayn on Dec 5, 2008 9:09:37 GMT -5
Angels have free will to a certain extent. Look at Job.....Satan is in the presence of the other angels and God. He must worship God and obey what God allows......read the first couple of chapters and you will see what I mean, but there must be some free will involved if it is even possible for Satan to exalt himself above God. There is no biblical evidence that suggests different. Remember, there are things that man has made up apart from the Biblical record......no free will in angels is an example.
It is commonly accepted that Cain married his sister.......not unheard of in the ancient world.
As far as race goes.......Genesis chapter 11...............Tower of Babel. If that doesn't convince you then maybe some modern day science will. There is a tribe of black Jews in southern (I believe) Africa. They have the complete appearance of African blacks yet have the DNA markers of true Jews from Israel.
God doesn't make mistakes....we do.
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Dec 5, 2008 10:26:51 GMT -5
Sleazy E;
My belief system: God is Perfect. This is my belief you are free to your belief and that is OK too. There are many thing we don't understand about God (Job is a good book to read in the Bible) but we have to have Faith. This is my belief system. If God is not prefect than he is not God.
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Post by Sleazy E on Dec 5, 2008 11:17:49 GMT -5
OK so why would the bible take the time to name all the children of Abraham but neglect to mention the birth of a daughter to Adam and Eve... if memory serves me right... the only mention of children from Adam and Even before Cains marriage was Cain and Able...
Let me ask you this.... If the angels do have free will... then why did God feel the need to create humans?
The tribe of black Jews is very interesting... I did not know about that... I will have to research it some and see what I can learn about it.
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Post by Sleazy E on Dec 5, 2008 11:24:11 GMT -5
TagTeam.... I am not belittling your belief system at all... I find all of this interesting... I am not taking part in this debate or discussion with the intent to offend anyone... LOL like in my sociology class I guess I just like to make people think about why they feel the way they do about certain things.
So again I mean no disrespect to you or anyone on this board... As you said you have the right to what you believe and I have the right to what I believe... who is right.... only the dead know beyond all doubt... and they aren't talking... at least to anyone sane anyway.
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Post by huntnprayn on Dec 5, 2008 11:53:45 GMT -5
So it mentions all of the Children of Abraham, that's what 2? The Bible in no way names all of the people born. It usually leaves out the girls, except for a few exceptions, when giving a genealogy. Surely Adam and Eve, who by the way were banned from the garden at the time Cain was born, had more children than just Cain and Able, they just happen to be mentioned since Cain killed Able and there were consequences because of it.
Why did God create humans? I do not know other than he wanted to enjoy their company.
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Dec 5, 2008 15:30:13 GMT -5
Sleazy E I never thought you were belittling anyone!!!
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. Eh Magna Cume Laude isn't bad.
Well, I guess she's been successfully indoctrinated. 
