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Post by hotshot on Nov 20, 2006 10:20:42 GMT -5
bought some Winchester platinum tip slugs this year. Not going to again. I've used the no frills hunk o lead sabot rounds for several years. The paltinum tips were accurate, but did very little damage. I shot one doe, it flinched the first time I shot- I thought great. It then just stood there, so I racked another round, shot again, deer stood, looked around. twice more. still nothing. On the fifth shot, it finally ran a few steps and laid down. I pivoted, and brought down a second, small doe(verified with binocs that I was not shooting a button buck), and hit her. She did die, but I hit her in the base of the neck crushing the backbone- aas she was turned away from me. As I approached the first deer- she was still alive- 4 holes in a circle I could put my thumbs and index fingers around in a circle- all within 4 inches of each other at a standing deer at 50 yards. no exit wounds. The last slug hit her front shoulder- shattering the pivot joint. no exit wounds existed, and the sslugs were not recovered. All slugs broke apart in the deer rendering tehe front half prety much nonedible, and did not bring it down. Shooting from a Mosberg 695 bolt action tack driver. Any other sabot round recomendations to try? There is no way I want to take on a mature buck with such non "ground pinning" ability. I want something to really knock it for a loop.
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Post by swindianapaul on Nov 20, 2006 10:52:20 GMT -5
hotshot:
Not trying to start a sabot war, but it is interesting how experiences vary in ammunition. I switched from Lightfields to the Platinum Tip a few years back for the very reason you're looking for a different sabot. In my case, the Lightfields would not consistently put them down. Since I switched to the Platinum Tips 3-4 years ago, I have only had to track one doe for any distance (45 yards). Except for tracking her and one other case 175 yards (poor shot placement on my part on an IN. Buck last year), in all other cases (13) they dropped in their tracks with one shot.
My hunting buddy is looking for another sabot to shoot next year (switching from Partition Golds to something else) for the same reason you are. Using the Golds, he has placed 2-3 rounds into a deer only to have it walk off a ways before dropping..
Good luck in finding the round that is right for you!
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Post by davepowers on Nov 20, 2006 11:04:56 GMT -5
I have been using Remington buckhammers. Shot a deer 2 years ago and it looked like someone had sprayed blood everywhere on the hillside.
Just like you I had problems with federal sabots, I shot my first deer 3 time 3 inch group and it finally fell over.
Are you shooting a 12 gauge or 20 gauge?
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Post by chicobrownbear on Nov 20, 2006 11:07:52 GMT -5
Shoot the slugs that shoot the best out of your arm. I have heard nothing but good things about the buck hammers. Accuracy/price/lethality is all there.
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Post by hornharvester on Nov 20, 2006 11:16:42 GMT -5
Use Federals with the solid copper Barnes MZ bullet in them and i'll guarantee they will not come apart. h.h.
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Post by jameslyon on Nov 20, 2006 12:11:05 GMT -5
Use Federals with the solid copper Barnes MZ bullet in them and i'll guarantee they will not come apart. h.h. I concur...great slug.
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Post by hotshot on Nov 20, 2006 12:31:35 GMT -5
I will state that my son shoots a smooth barrel, and used federal's ultrashoks. He shot once- it did major damage to the lung area- tore it up. his second shot- at the deer on the run took out a fron leg- shot it completely off at the elbow. The plastic ball was found in the deer. the hole coming out the back side- gaping wound. I'll go get a box of buck hammers- they seem like a good bet.
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Post by hunter7x on Nov 20, 2006 13:34:51 GMT -5
I've used Lightfields for years and have never had problems. I don't think any sabot is going to do the damage the old time $2 a box Winchester or Remingtons. If you want them to drop on the spot with a sabot, shoot em in the neck.
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Post by bigugly on Nov 20, 2006 14:58:37 GMT -5
My father shot a doe this year with the Federal Barnes expanders. Double lung at 25 yards watched it fall 30 yards later. It took off like a bolt and dropped just as fast. It went from full out to dead, no wobble just dropped. I use these slugs as well and highly recommend them. My slug gun is zeroed with them for 100 yards, slightly high at 50 and 4" low at 150 great slugs.
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Post by semisneak on Nov 20, 2006 15:02:20 GMT -5
My father shot a doe this year with the Federal Barnes expanders. Double lung at 25 yards watched it fall 30 yards later. It took off like a bolt and dropped just as fast. It went from full out to dead, no wobble just dropped. I use these slugs as well and highly recommend them. My slug gun is zeroed with them for 100 yards, slightly high at 50 and 4" low at 150 great slugs. I agree..........these are great sabots. These sabots will crumple a deer up.
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Post by rhinodogg on Nov 20, 2006 15:58:53 GMT -5
I have been using Remington buckhammers. Shot a deer 2 years ago and it looked like someone had sprayed blood everywhere on the hillside. Just like you I had problems with federal sabots, I shot my first deer 3 time 3 inch group and it finally fell over. Are you shooting a 12 gauge or 20 gauge? Ditto on the buckhammers. Shot a doe Saturday morning broadside at 52 yds with the 3" 12 gauge (601 gr). The entrance hole was impressive, but the exit is unbelievable. Took out both lungs (only part of one lung was intact in the chest cavity) and a little bit of the heart. She was dead and didn't know it and ran 60 yds up hill. Kinda shocked me. Buckhammers are pretty impressive.
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Post by steiny on Nov 20, 2006 18:48:05 GMT -5
Shoot whatever slug hits where you are aiming and forget about slug performance, expansion and all that junk. Anything that big that hits the mark is going to make a kill shot. How dead do they need to be anyway?
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Post by wolfhound on Nov 20, 2006 20:38:45 GMT -5
bought some Winchester platinum tip slugs this year. Not going to again. Just curious but what velocity do them things fly at? I've used the 260 gr. Winchester Platinum tips sabots in my muzzleloader (same bullet) at 1985 fps and always been impressed with their performance. The furthest anything went was 30 yds. Everything else dropped in it's tracks at ranges of 20-120 yds. I'm just not a shotgun guy.
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Post by danf on Nov 20, 2006 22:47:57 GMT -5
I guess I don't understand why anyone thinks they need to shoot a deer more than one time if they are fairly certain they hit it the first time???
One shot- one kill, it's that simple. With a shotgun, that's *ALL* I've ever done. I've never had time to take a second shot, even if I'd wanted to.
But then again, I'm not taking shots that are out of range either....
FWIW, I've used Remington Copper solids (two deer), Winchester sabots (don't remember specifics on them, two or three deer), and just got a deer on Saturday with a Federal Vital Shok sabot. All out of a 12 gauge Mossberg 500. If you put the slug through the lungs or the heart, it's dead, you don't need to shoot it again....
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Post by Old Ironsights on Nov 20, 2006 23:15:06 GMT -5
One shot- one kill, it's that simple. With a shotgun, that's *ALL* I've ever done. I've never had time to take a second shot, even if I'd wanted to. But then again, I'm not taking shots that are out of range either.... ZING! ;D
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Post by lugnutz on Nov 20, 2006 23:27:26 GMT -5
I wouldn't be as worried about what it does when it enters the cavity, as long as you can put the slug where it belongs. The energy alone will kill the deer.
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Post by bigugly on Nov 21, 2006 9:11:41 GMT -5
Some guys seem to think every deer they shoot should fall dead in their tracks. I've had two spine shots like that everything else between 30-400 yards recovery all in good range(100 yards and less) and all double lunged. There have been a lot of other deer I could have taken shots at but I'm very picky with shot placement. If I'm not 100% sure I wait, even if it means no deer for the year.
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Post by hotshot on Nov 21, 2006 11:18:40 GMT -5
Okay getting very specfic here as to what happened... Bang at a deer 50 yards away. She flinched. I saw no blood coming out so I assumed I had knicked her. I worked the bolt action, hit her again, she acted as if nothing happened, ditto on shots 3, and 4. Finally, on shot 5 she jumped again ran a few steps and crumpled. This is because I had hit her in the front shoulder/ leg. I could put my fingers in a circle around the shots. Of 5 shots, there was no exit wound on a medium deer. This was my concern- if a deer does not have an exit wound- that means all the energy was used up inside it. The deer didn't even get bothered by 4 shots The sabot rounds had broken apart inside the deer which I think is a good thing, but makes for a mess in processing. I've shot older versions of no frills Winchester rounds that were not high priced bullets- only chuncks of 50 cal lead that were spun out of the barrel. These rounds are hevier, travel faster, and seem to punch a hole harder and larger. The anchor shot was an older slug that I had in my pocket. I ran our of the more expensive rounds and took care of business with the older slugs.
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Post by dec on Nov 21, 2006 11:29:07 GMT -5
You know, I'm not a big gun guy, so I'm not ballistics expert. BUT the mechanical engineer in me has always driven me to use a sabotted lead bullet whether it is a slug gun or muzzleloader. Again, I'm not a ballistics expert, but I just don't feel that these guns can generate the velocities needed to effectively open up a copper jacket. I've experienced this problem with some Powerbelt muzzleloader bullets in the past. I had a problem with the bullet simply not opening up and passing right on through the animal, leaving a hole, but not imposing the devastation associated with a gun shot. But what I've found is that the same bullet weight in lead will generate a good mushroom shape provide a substantial wound cavity. Such a bullet will typically lodge in the off side shoulder or hide of the deer, verifying that all the energy transfered into the kill.
It has been a long time, 10 years at least, since I've killed a deer with a slug gun, but back when I did slug gun hunt I had my best luck with sabotted lead bullets. I've found the same success with sabbotted lead muzzleloader bullets in the past few years.
Again, I'm no gun expert, but this is just my experience so take it for what it is worth.
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Post by 30pointbuck on Nov 21, 2006 13:21:16 GMT -5
I have used lightfields for years and find them to be great slugs, shoot excellent out of my gun of course my gun(browning A-bolt )and lightfields where developed for each other so therefore its a good match. I have not had any trouble stopping deer dropped a doe and button buck this morning. at 10 am.
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