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Post by gundude on Jan 29, 2006 19:16:32 GMT -5
Well Rodney? You gonna step up to the plate and answer, or you going to take the advise of your attorney and pled the 5th? ? The evidence is pretty d a m n i n g isn't it? ? The spin is about to end............
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Post by spike on Jan 30, 2006 8:00:20 GMT -5
Gundude- Keep dreaming !! The cwd scare is over and you have played your last card. Now the game gets interesting. You better book your hunt now to assure yourself a spot.
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Post by gundude on Jan 30, 2006 8:24:54 GMT -5
Rodney, All I have asked you to do was answer a few basic questions in this thread and you have avoided them at every turn...... The only conclusion I can draw from that is that YOU know the truth and that you have no answer! Well you have the answers but they don't shed very good light on you or your operation.... ALL the the REAL sportsmens groups are united against you!.......... Despite what you are trying to tell the unknowing............... You have been asked twice about the ratio of deer per acre...... You have avoided that as well.....................
Rodney you have put on a good show of trying to come off as pro-sportsman- pro hunting- pro-fairchase..... I guess you think the majority of hunters in this State are just to plain stupid to see through it all............ I got news for you my friend, they aren't as dumb as they look!
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Post by spike on Jan 30, 2006 11:54:08 GMT -5
gundude- We saw many REAL sportsmen at the public meetings- 3 to 1 to be exact. They sure did not look dumb or act dumb as you portray them to be.. The only odd looking thing was the FEW people who appeared to be sportsmen sitting with the PETA and HSUS people. You and a couple others "depend" on people to be followers instead of leaders and self thinkers. When people see the facts (as did the natural resource committee 11-1) we as sportsmen prevail. If people like being told how they can think then you prevail. Fortunately the majority of sportsmen have seen your anti agenda and have taken the time to get their voice heard. Again- 11-1 vote from people who convey what the majority want.
You are right- the sportsmen are united to save hunting- and preserve hunting is a major part of that. I have told you for years now that the preserves are here to stay. The only question is what will the rules and regs be. I have been very ademate about adopting rules and regs needing to be implemented so that canned hunting can not exsist and give everyone else a bad name. But anit's have not been willing to negotiate so the issue has been left up to the public, the sportsmen, the court and the legislators. No matter how it comes down the preserve will continue to exsist and help promote hunting and the hunting heritage. It simply is Un-American to strip the rights of Private Property rights, sportsmens rights and business owner rights.
Like I said- You better book you hunt now. There are no gaurantees- but maybe a weekend at deer camp would open your eyes to what hunting is all about. Some of us do not have to "kill" to be rewarded or feel like a man in the great outdoors.
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Post by jkd on Jan 30, 2006 12:39:23 GMT -5
PBR,
HB 1349 is on a long list of bills for second reading today, and as of this morning, I don't believe they've gotten to it yet... all the yakking over the eminent domain and toll road issues has created a backlog of other bills the House has not gotten to, and Feb. 2 is the last day for house bills to pass on third reading and go to the senate... at this pace, the bill may not get heard for second reading, let alone third, and would die for lack of action...
Will check this afternoon again and see where they're at on the agenda...
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Post by hoyt1166 on Jan 30, 2006 13:17:57 GMT -5
gundude- We saw many REAL sportsmen at the public meetings- 3 to 1 to be exact. They sure did not look dumb or act dumb as you portray them to be.. The only odd looking thing was the FEW people who appeared to be sportsmen sitting with the PETA and HSUS people. You and a couple others "depend" on people to be followers instead of leaders and self thinkers. When people see the facts (as did the natural resource committee 11-1) we as sportsmen prevail. If people like being told how they can think then you prevail. Fortunately the majority of sportsmen have seen your anti agenda and have taken the time to get their voice heard. Again- 11-1 vote from people who convey what the majority want. You are right- the sportsmen are united to save hunting- and preserve hunting is a major part of that. I have told you for years now that the preserves are here to stay. The only question is what will the rules and regs be. I have been very ademate about adopting rules and regs needing to be implemented so that canned hunting can not exsist and give everyone else a bad name. But anit's have not been willing to negotiate so the issue has been left up to the public, the sportsmen, the court and the legislators. No matter how it comes down the preserve will continue to exsist and help promote hunting and the hunting heritage. It simply is Un-American to strip the rights of Private Property rights, sportsmens rights and business owner rights. Like I said- You better book you hunt now. There are no gaurantees- but maybe a weekend at deer camp would open your eyes to what hunting is all about. Some of us do not have to "kill" to be rewarded or feel like a man in the great outdoors. Spike, I was just curious on why you couldn't do your "guiding" outside of the fences? You say you are all about fair chase but the only thing I see in the "fair chase" that you offer is that there is no guarantee. Additionally, I would think until you answer the question about the deer:acre ratio your words will fall upon deaf ears here. You hold yourself up to be a sportsman but if Teddy Roosevelt were alive today, he'd smack you with the big stick he carried. I'm not sure where you got your sense of fair chase, but I was never told that fences were a part of that equation. Why the reticence to proclaim your deer:acre ratio? One can only assume that until you answer the question, you will be seen as hiding something. Why the fear Rodney?
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Post by spike on Jan 30, 2006 13:41:42 GMT -5
Hoyt- As I have said before- Ethics and Fair Chase beliefs is WHY I built my place. I do offer hunts on State Property as well. That is the only place I gaurantee a kill. If you read everything about Teddy Roosevelt you would find that he would embrace places that protect and promote the hunting heritage. I would be judged by him in a minute !! I have never hid anything about the preserves. My place has a ratio of about 1 deer per 2 acres. Unlike on the state properties we hunt only a few deer are eligable to hunt. It has to be a buck of at least 4 years old, that is why it is fair chase. Anybody could go to the State proeprties and kill a deer every day of season. But if you restrictions where the deer have to be mature everything changes. I have said many times, If the State would hold the stringent rules of ethics and fair chase as I do I will tear my fences down. My practices of deer management is why people hunt preserves. They get tired of the poachers and brown and downers. If it takes a fence to get away from that then they will gladly pay someone to manage a piece of property in that fashion.
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Post by duff on Jan 30, 2006 14:27:50 GMT -5
1 deer per 2 acres = 320 deer per square mile.
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Post by rmc on Jan 30, 2006 15:47:06 GMT -5
Where I live it's about 30 per square mile. Sounds a lot more natural doesn't it?
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Post by gundude on Jan 30, 2006 18:48:35 GMT -5
gundude- We saw many REAL sportsmen at the public meetings- 3 to 1 to be exact. They sure did not look dumb or act dumb as you portray them to be.. The only odd looking thing was the FEW people who appeared to be sportsmen sitting with the PETA and HSUS people. You and a couple others "depend" on people to be followers instead of leaders and self thinkers. When people see the facts (as did the natural resource committee 11-1) we as sportsmen prevail. If people like being told how they can think then you prevail. Fortunately the majority of sportsmen have seen your anti agenda and have taken the time to get their voice heard. Again- 11-1 vote from people who convey what the majority want. You are right- the sportsmen are united to save hunting- and preserve hunting is a major part of that. I have told you for years now that the preserves are here to stay. The only question is what will the rules and regs be. I have been very ademate about adopting rules and regs needing to be implemented so that canned hunting can not exsist and give everyone else a bad name. But anit's have not been willing to negotiate so the issue has been left up to the public, the sportsmen, the court and the legislators. No matter how it comes down the preserve will continue to exsist and help promote hunting and the hunting heritage. It simply is Un-American to strip the rights of Private Property rights, sportsmens rights and business owner rights. Like I said- You better book you hunt now. There are no gaurantees- but maybe a weekend at deer camp would open your eyes to what hunting is all about. Some of us do not have to "kill" to be rewarded or feel like a man in the great outdoors. WOW I had no idea!... You mean to tell me that the IBA, the IDHA, IWF and SPORTSMENS ROUNDTABLE all stood in support of HB1439? ?? I don't think so scooter! Now let me tell you something about leaders and followers. TRUE leaders lead by telling the truth. Others have to rely on spin, half truths and distorted facts.. The idea being that if you tell it long enough then people will believe it including yourself. It's as old as politics itself but it is far less effective these days..... BTW>>.. Were you one of the leading people speaking out on this bill? What did YOU have to say before the NRC??? Care to share? I mean you are the "leader" aren't you? One other question Rodney. Why are you here? I mean really. Did you think you could come to a REAL sportsman's site and thing you would win over some mass of support? Lastly, I wish you no ill will at all and I hope you can come up with an honest way to make a living without potentially infecting our wildlife and sacrificing our traditions and hunting heritage and ethics.... TEAR DOWN THE FENCE! and learn how to hunt!
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Post by hoyt1166 on Jan 30, 2006 20:05:08 GMT -5
If you read everything about Teddy Roosevelt you would find that he would embrace places that protect and promote the hunting heritage. I would be judged by him in a minute !! Spike, this should say it all. It's from Teddy Roosevelt's Principle of the Hunt and it goes like this: "The rich......who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own exertions, these are the real enemies of game." Are you really sure that you, a proprieter of the very thing that Teddy Roosevelt spoke out against, would want to be judged by the same? No, you can throw your spin on it any way you want to for those uninformed, but you're at the wrong place for that. 320 deer per square mile and you want to talk to me about fair chase? Does the term "shooting fish in a barrell" mean anything to you? Even you would have to admit that this is not healthy for the deer. Please expound on how this is healthy for the deer. In order for your property to sustain the deer, you would have to feed the deer. When you feed the deer, you condition the deer. And, I know that no one in your industry has or would take advantage of that situation. Whoops, wrong again. Bellar proved me wrong on that one. Of course, his wans't as much about food as it was drugs. But, since you want to lump those against your cause in with PETA, it's a logical conclusion to lump you in with Bellar. To tell the truth, I'm not sure what group is worse. PETA or Bellar?
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Post by genehopkins on Jan 31, 2006 22:09:20 GMT -5
HB1349 was ammended today by Rep Ulmer to become an "end the fenced shooting" bill. While it does allow those who had offered shoots prior to this year 5 years to get out of business, it explicitly says "get out of business". Now the bill will move to the Senate where further discussion will occur and additional ammendments may be offered, or where this bill could die.
So, in short, the legislature is now on record as having joined the "end the shooting behind fences" campaign.
Thanks to everyone who contacted their state legislators to let them know how much we sportsmen object to this practice. As soon as the exact language which passed the House is confirmed (someone added a last minute ammendment to put Lifetime Licenses back in) we will see that it gets posted here and on the other sportsmens websites for your review.
Good work everyone. But we are not done yet.
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Post by hoyt1166 on Jan 31, 2006 23:34:28 GMT -5
Wow, if this goes through, that would be great. I'll continue to do everything I can to ensure that it does.
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Post by indianadan on Feb 1, 2006 8:35:50 GMT -5
HB1349 was ammended today by Rep Ulmer to become an "end the fenced shooting" bill. While it does allow those who had offered shoots prior to this year 5 years to get out of business, it explicitly says "get out of business". Now the bill will move to the Senate where further discussion will occur and additional ammendments may be offered, or where this bill could die. So, in short, the legislature is now on record as having joined the "end the shooting behind fences" campaign. Thanks to everyone who contacted their state legislators to let them know how much we sportsmen object to this practice. As soon as the exact language which passed the House is confirmed (someone added a last minute ammendment to put Lifetime Licenses back in) we will see that it gets posted here and on the other sportsmens websites for your review. Good work everyone. But we are not done yet. Not good enough IMO. This is just a way for them to string it along. Now, every year for the next 5 years there will undoubtedly be a similar bill introduced. The amendment of lifetime licenses being added is only trying to get more support for this bill from real sportsmen (which are not to be confused with the "sportsmen" that hunt at Rodney's place). The wool is being pulled down slowly...JMO
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 1, 2006 9:49:10 GMT -5
HB1349 was ammended today by Rep Ulmer to become an "end the fenced shooting" bill. While it does allow those who had offered shoots prior to this year 5 years to get out of business, it explicitly says "get out of business". Now the bill will move to the Senate where further discussion will occur and additional ammendments may be offered, or where this bill could die. So, in short, the legislature is now on record as having joined the "end the shooting behind fences" campaign. Thanks to everyone who contacted their state legislators to let them know how much we sportsmen object to this practice. As soon as the exact language which passed the House is confirmed (someone added a last minute ammendment to put Lifetime Licenses back in) we will see that it gets posted here and on the other sportsmens websites for your review. Good work everyone. But we are not done yet. Not good enough IMO. This is just a way for them to string it along. Now, every year for the next 5 years there will undoubtedly be a similar bill introduced. The amendment of lifetime licenses being added is only trying to get more support for this bill from real sportsmen (which are not to be confused with the "sportsmen" that hunt at Rodney's place). The wool is being pulled down slowly...JMO Ditto... If this bill is defeated, even with the "get out of business amendment", the "preserves" are dead meat THIS YEAR. With this amendment it will be business as usual (even for Bellar)for 5 years. At that time they WILL be back and say "Looks what good boys we have been and what we have done for the economy" and a NEW bill will be written to accomodate them. These guys are "true believers" and they **NEVER** give up. We can declare victory if you guys want to, but I don't see it as complete.
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Post by jkd on Feb 1, 2006 12:18:51 GMT -5
I agree that there is a concern that another legislature might try to amend/extend the sunset deadline. I know for some types of legislation, the house/senate can insert language requiring a "super-majority" (e.g. 2/3 of each body) vote in the future to amend or eliminate a particular statute, so maybe that would be a good idea in this instance. I haven't had time to read Ulmer's amendments in detail, but there also needs to be specific language in there about what these operations will do with their deer at the end of the sunset deadline... at the end, we don't want them releasing a bunch of does into the local wild herd... Here's the final version of the house bill as amended, which will go on to the senate: www.in.gov/legislative/bills/2006/HB/HB1349.2.htmlI noticed that the lifetime license amendment that was added in at the last minute would give a FREE LTL to any resident of Indiana who has "served in and received an honorable discharge from the armed forces of the United States..."
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 1, 2006 14:43:52 GMT -5
General Assembly
Hunting preserve limits backed
By Niki KellyThe Journal Gazette
INDIANAPOLIS – House members voted Tuesday night to restrict legislation that would have allowed for countless new animal hunting preserves across the state.
A legislative panel earlier passed House Bill 1349, legalizing facilities in which hunters pay to kill pen-raised deer and elk behind high fences.
Members were concerned at the time that the Department of Natural Resources intended to put all the preserves – about 15 – out of business after this legislative session, not allowing them to recoup their investment.
But negotiations have continued on the bill, including DNR Director Kyle Hupfer heavily lobbying lawmakers in the Statehouse halls.
As a result, the author of the bill – Rep. John Ulmer, R-Goshen – said compromise language had been reached that would allow existing preserves to continue until 2013 before all would be shut down.
To be eligible, a facility must have had a game breeder’s permit as well as documentation showing the owner has allowed deer or elk hunting at the facility between 2003 and 2005.
During the first five years of the extension, the preserve would be allowed to purchase and release new deer into the acreage but during the last two years can hunt only deer raised on its own property.
Weapons limitations related to the hunting of whitetail deer would apply to any animal on a licensed hunting facility, according to the amended legislation. Also, whitetail deer would be subject to current hunting limits but could be hunted year-round.
Even those against canned hunting in principle were supportive of the amendment because it limits the number of preserves that could exist in the future. Rep. Dale Grubb, D-Covington, said not placing the amendment in the bill would mean a risk that the facilities would be legal forever.
“This puts some constraints so they cannot expand,” he said. “Regardless of your position on the underlying bill the amendment I believe softens it.
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