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Post by firstwd on Jan 18, 2008 15:54:46 GMT -5
With the seemingly greater attention the upcoming Presidential race is getting these days, and the politacally correctness that has come with it, I have a couple questions and I would like to here your answers.
1. What is the definition of an American?
2. Should there be a race classification of "American"? Like on aplications i.e. instead of white, black, hispanic
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Post by dbd870 on Jan 18, 2008 16:19:30 GMT -5
There should be no discussion of race. I want to know the person's true position on the issues. (Lots of luck )
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Post by oneshot on Jan 18, 2008 16:44:20 GMT -5
My definition. 1. Speak English. 2. Be an informed voter. 3. Work, or contribute to society in some fashion. 4. Serve in the military in some capacity. 5. Understand the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. 6. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. 7. Race should not enter into the picture. I know not everyone here will agree with me on all these points but hey its JMHO.
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Jan 19, 2008 13:10:08 GMT -5
American = anyone that lives in South or North America.
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Jan 19, 2008 13:13:36 GMT -5
My definition. 1. Speak English. 2. Be an informed voter. 3. Work, or contribute to society in some fashion. 4. Serve in the military in some capacity. 5. Understand the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. 6. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. 7. Race should not enter into the picture. I know not everyone here will agree with me on all these points but hey its JMHO. 4. Guess this means Hillary isn't one ... I knew I had a reason to dislike her. 5. OK so we have a whole bunch in our Federal Courts that needs to be deported.
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Post by tenring on Jan 19, 2008 17:11:15 GMT -5
My definition. 1. Speak English. 2. Be an informed voter. 3. Work, or contribute to society in some fashion. 4. Serve in the military in some capacity. 5. Understand the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. 6. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. 7. Race should not enter into the picture. I know not everyone here will agree with me on all these points but hey its JMHO. Agree on all seven, especially #4.
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Post by Russ Koon on Jan 19, 2008 17:45:34 GMT -5
Agree with the first two.
The third.....I don't see any problem with someone who inherited it, or won the lottery, or invested extremely well. I think any American should try to buy American products as much as they can. I know, some products simply aren't made here, and some are, but only in very expensive models. But there are many competitive American-made goods that are being ignored or even talked down on these very hunting sites, and that's a shame when we're suffering from massive trade deficits.
And the fourth......some of us didn't get invited to serve. I was rejected for nearsightedness (it's pretty severe, but I was head-shooting all my squirrels for five years before the SSS physical, and Dad and I could swap glasses and he saw France and a little of Germany during WW II, go figure). One brother couldn't possibly have served, due to severe asthma and the other came out of HS during a period of peace and no draft, when the government wasn't hiring many fighters. So what are we, Albanians? We all have the greatest respect and gratitude for those serving in our armed forces, but that opportunity wasn't, and still isn't, universally available.
Agree on #5, but it is probably setting the standard higher than is realistic, when most of our presidential candidates don't seem to be in compliance.
#6....Ditto.
Agree on #7, and would add that religion shouldn't either, even if it means the complete lack of any.
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Post by drgreyhound on Jan 20, 2008 16:04:10 GMT -5
I agree, plus if every single individual who considered himself or herself American was serving in the military in some capacity, we would not have any civilians to participate in US society, and probably too many Americans would get killed to have that be productive. While there is no doubt that it's a very American thing to serve in the military, I don't think one shouldn't be considered an American just because they didn't serve or didn't have the opportunity to due to disability or some other reason.
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Post by firstwd on Jan 20, 2008 20:37:53 GMT -5
I guess I expected more of a response on this. Maybe they are tougher questions than I had originally thought. Here's my thoughts.
1. Since most of the World and especially most of the people in this Country relate "Americans" to those in the USA, I would call an American any citizen of the United States of America. I truly mean any citizen, born or naturalized.
2. This Country was founded on the idea of being a melting pot for peoples from all over the world. I, like seemingly most of us, I am basically a mutt. My ancestry traces back to three different Countries, but I was born here, my roots are here, and I feel my "race" is American. I have little bigotry (no one can truthfully say none) toward people of any other color or race, but I have several black friends that take offense to being called "African American". They will tell you that not all black people come from Africa and they feel they are just Americans. If our fore-fathers are to ever be right in their convictions, then we need to look at each other as just fellow Americans and find a way to treat everyone equal.
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Post by kevin1 on Jan 21, 2008 6:33:49 GMT -5
If you were born to legal residents of this country you're American whther you were born here or elsewhere.
No, being American is a nationality, not a race.
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Jan 21, 2008 7:00:14 GMT -5
American = A lifestyle condusive to the ideals of our founding fathers.
Race / Nationality = No across the board.
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Post by drgreyhound on Jan 21, 2008 17:22:16 GMT -5
I don't agree that nobody can say they are not bigots (double negative?--sorry!). The diversity-toting liberals want everybody to blindly buy into this, because they want white people to believe that they are "unintentional racists" just because they have so-called "white privilege" that "oppresses" minorities in the name of pushing a liberal handout-giving, down-on-Whites agenda. In my humble opinion, this stereotype and over-generalization is insulting trash--my great-grandparents certainly didn't have "privilege" when they came dirt poor to this country on a boat as a result of being white, and they never "oppressed" anyone due to their whiteness. Rather, they lived with less "privilege" than even the poorest crack addict on welfare today, learned how to speak English and worked, nearly to the death, to raise their families in a better situation than they ever had. Sue and Sue are two such diversity-toting liberals pushing this view down everyone's throat--unfortunately, I had to read their trash in order to pass my doctoral competency exam (yes, it's embarrassing to admit): tinyurl.com/yr6dndtinyurl.com/2gdh2yMaybe the real "bigots" are the ones that espouse the view of those like Sue and Sue, as they continue to make "minorities" (whatever that is nowadays) believe they are somehow "lesser" individuals than others deserving of more "privilege"...
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Post by firstwd on Jan 21, 2008 20:52:40 GMT -5
Doc.... you scare me. I think you may have generalized my thinking to race or color of people.
Try this, Look at every person of the world and then start choosing groups. Can any one person say they do not feel ill will toward all people? Look beyond, black, Hispanic, Muslim, and look toward thieves, murders, rapists.
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Post by dbd870 on Jan 22, 2008 5:28:54 GMT -5
I have felt that way for a long time. The liberals fan the flames of racism and division for their own ends, and at least for a larger part of the population than I care to see, it's working. I'd go as far to say as we still have slave masters and slaves, only now the chains are made of green paper (PC has never been a concern of mine ). Good observation; for your age, you have a very good understanding of these kind of workings.
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Post by drgreyhound on Jan 22, 2008 5:58:28 GMT -5
It's interesting to include thieves, murders, and rapists in the mix. I do feel ill will towards these individuals, because they have made the decision to commit a crime and deserve the disdain of society; in order to adaptively protect themselves from the behavior of these individuals, society members think less of and want to avoid these people. Maybe people can only be "bigots" if their ill will is unjustified--for example, thinking less of an individual simply because they are of another race and for no other reason. Criminals are "marginalized" by society as a result of having to go to prison or serve another kind of sentence as a protective function. One could argue the same thing for Muslims who commit crimes (as it is, for some, a fundamental part of their religious doctrine that they do so)--they are rightly "marginalized" in order to protect society. I'm going to ask something a liberal would probably ask, but I'm not going to ask it with any "predetermined" answer (and I certainly don't mean to derail the thread any further!--lol!), but here goes--are those who believe in and/or use racial profiling "bigots" because they are making a judgment about individuals in certain groups before these individuals do anything to deserve that judgment from society, or are they simply utilizing sociological data predicting the criminal behavior of a group of people in order to protect society more efficiently? "Green paper"--I love it! LOL! ;D Thanks, DBD!
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Jan 22, 2008 7:50:20 GMT -5
Excellent posts doc. Glad you are on our team.
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Post by old3arrows on Jan 22, 2008 9:31:11 GMT -5
Very good posts doc! Firstwd you are one first class dude as well, and I'm proud to know you and be fellow Americans with you and all of the rest of the guys here. No matter that we have our differences and our politicians have a lot of dumb ideas and make terrible decisions at times we still live in the best country in the world! I've traveled and visited several foreign countries, but I will always come home to the good old USA!
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Post by firstwd on Jan 22, 2008 13:03:22 GMT -5
Thanks old3..
Doc, in my opinion, racial profilling doesn't only make the profillers bigots, but helps breed bigotry in society.
As for helping protect society... I am honestly more afraid of the "Whites" in Washington than I am of any Muslimwalking down the street.
I asks my questions to get other aspects on this to have a broader base of knowledge to think about. I have gained that, but I still don't think I have an answer....
Thanks all.
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Post by Russ Koon on Jan 22, 2008 16:03:46 GMT -5
You may have more of your answer than you realize.
I wonder where else in the world you could ask for the definition of what makes a person a true citizen of that country or region, and come up with such a variety of answers?
And where the answers would be so heavily leaning towards inclusion, rather than exclusion?
I'm proud that we still have so many people who are welcoming to the strangers who come to us LEGALLY, and in acceptable numbers. As long as the numbers were below that of invading armies, we even were mostly welcoming to those who came in illegally, as long as they behaved themselves once here.
I think that the mixture of so many people from different cultures over the years has been a very important factor in determining just who we are now.
I'd just about bet that we have more Mexican restaurants in Indiana that there are American restaurants in all of Mexico. And probably the same can be said for your choice of other nations.
So we're a blended culture, made of many other cultures, just as we're a blended people. Most of us have ancestries that sound like the roll call at the UN. I'm part English, part Sioux and part Cherokee, with some Dutch somewhere way back, and we think some German, and maybe some Polish back several generations. The wife's Irish in family name, but it had been mixed pretty thoroughly with Scottish-Irish hillbilly and English, for sure and a few other suspected sources, before I met her and further confused things. Hard to find an American with much genetic purity. I see where they found Barack Obama to be distant cousins with Dick Cheney.
I think folks are pretty much just folks, everywhere, and that it's their cultural influences such as their religions and governments that make them seem different. Our religious freedom and guaranteed personal freedom has allowed people here to be "just folks" to a greater extent than anywhere else in history, with minimal influence from those constraints. And those who have come to join us and let themselves blend, have been normalized to the same state of confusion as those who were here when they got here.
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Post by firstwd on Jan 22, 2008 21:15:55 GMT -5
Russ, Thank you.
I had my ideas of what an American was when I posed the question. I just wasn't sure how my thoughts fell in line with others'. Personally I think there is an old Dolly Parton song that describes us pretty well. We are made of many colors, and while we don't always look prim and proper, we can be quite warm and protective in a storm.
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